Inbound callers are intermittently connecting to oubound callers in PBX mode. Probably what I need is a basic trunk group tutorial. I have one line pool(70)with 19 lines in it. The users have no line buttons just "9" for a outside line. I assumed that the line group pool would be dynamic and not give access to an outgoing caller when it's ringing inbound. I also have 3 operator consoles with all the line appreances they don't experience this problem. This problem wasn't happening till I added more lines last week. Thanks in advance
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Legend Inbound/outbound call collisions
- Thread starter dromero
- Start date
Well, here's your tutorial.
What you are describing is called GLARE.
By definition, GLARE happens when ALL LINES RINGING IN and ALL LINES DIALING OUT are in the same pool. - SC's used to ALWAYS set them up that way...
There's a couple of good ways to fix that.
BEST - Have some lines dedicated to ONLY OUT GOING, and not part of your incomming hunt, and move them to your outgoing pool.
ALMOST AS GOOD (Without having to call the service provider) - CREATE 5 DIFFERENT POOLS to correct this problem, and set up ars to accomodate it.
Pool 1 would be the 70 pool with the LAST 4 LINES of your hunt group in it, lines 816-819 as you indicated. Pool 890 would have the NEST TO THE LAST 4 lines in the hunt group lines 812-815. Pool 891, lines 808-811. Pool 892 lines 804-807 and last, Pool 893 would have 801-803.
Then set ARS up to select pool 79, then 890, then 891, then 892, then 893.
HERE'S WHY - Lines in pools are used in a "CIRCULAR" hunt. So, if youy have ALL 19 LINES in the SAME OUTGOING POOL, which is also the INCOMING HUNT GROUP, you are going to have GLARE.
Let's say you set it up the way I described.
Now, the only time first 3 lines would be accesssed would be if all 16 others are in use. In fact the only way any of the first 7 lines could be accessed would be only after all 12 other lines were in use. And so on...
This would pretty much eliminate the cause of GLARE.
Let us know how this works out....
What you are describing is called GLARE.
By definition, GLARE happens when ALL LINES RINGING IN and ALL LINES DIALING OUT are in the same pool. - SC's used to ALWAYS set them up that way...
There's a couple of good ways to fix that.
BEST - Have some lines dedicated to ONLY OUT GOING, and not part of your incomming hunt, and move them to your outgoing pool.
ALMOST AS GOOD (Without having to call the service provider) - CREATE 5 DIFFERENT POOLS to correct this problem, and set up ars to accomodate it.
Pool 1 would be the 70 pool with the LAST 4 LINES of your hunt group in it, lines 816-819 as you indicated. Pool 890 would have the NEST TO THE LAST 4 lines in the hunt group lines 812-815. Pool 891, lines 808-811. Pool 892 lines 804-807 and last, Pool 893 would have 801-803.
Then set ARS up to select pool 79, then 890, then 891, then 892, then 893.
HERE'S WHY - Lines in pools are used in a "CIRCULAR" hunt. So, if youy have ALL 19 LINES in the SAME OUTGOING POOL, which is also the INCOMING HUNT GROUP, you are going to have GLARE.
Let's say you set it up the way I described.
Now, the only time first 3 lines would be accesssed would be if all 16 others are in use. In fact the only way any of the first 7 lines could be accessed would be only after all 12 other lines were in use. And so on...
This would pretty much eliminate the cause of GLARE.
Let us know how this works out....
Bottom line...if you have "glare" with 19 co lines...you will always have a busy pool problem...if your customers
lines are that busy...simple... get more lines (T1 ckt).
Your not fixing anything by putting lines in different
pools, just rearranging the problem.
lines are that busy...simple... get more lines (T1 ckt).
Your not fixing anything by putting lines in different
pools, just rearranging the problem.
I tend to disagree with Dan2002.
I think, based on what dromero described, The ORDER OF LINE SELECTION of the POOL, and the ORDER OF THE LINE SELECTION OF THE INCOMING HUNT GROUP are probably in the same order.
By that I mean, choice 1 incoming is line 1, and so is choice 1 outgoing.
If, by re-arranging the pool/line config YOU DO NOT fix the problem, then YES all 19 are being used in-bound and out-bound.
However, if changing the pool/line config FIXES THE TROUBLE, then they are not using up all lines for in & out.
Of course, one easy way to check would be to put an appearance of all lines on a 20 or 28 Button set and see if they all get busty, or just the first few.
I would be willing to bet that only the first few lines have the problem.
I think, based on what dromero described, The ORDER OF LINE SELECTION of the POOL, and the ORDER OF THE LINE SELECTION OF THE INCOMING HUNT GROUP are probably in the same order.
By that I mean, choice 1 incoming is line 1, and so is choice 1 outgoing.
If, by re-arranging the pool/line config YOU DO NOT fix the problem, then YES all 19 are being used in-bound and out-bound.
However, if changing the pool/line config FIXES THE TROUBLE, then they are not using up all lines for in & out.
Of course, one easy way to check would be to put an appearance of all lines on a 20 or 28 Button set and see if they all get busty, or just the first few.
I would be willing to bet that only the first few lines have the problem.
This is not an ARS problem...I presume the lines you have glare with, are loop start....you will have this problem.
For those of you who have been around long enough..remember
ground start trks...why do think they used them in old
switchboard and PBX's. Because of release call supervision.
Ground start trks don't have this problem..When was the last time you saw lp st trks used in Definity outbound call
groups.
Yes you can separate in & outbound lines so they don't
"glare". With smaller systems this is not practical.
For those of you who have been around long enough..remember
ground start trks...why do think they used them in old
switchboard and PBX's. Because of release call supervision.
Ground start trks don't have this problem..When was the last time you saw lp st trks used in Definity outbound call
groups.
Yes you can separate in & outbound lines so they don't
"glare". With smaller systems this is not practical.
TouchToneTommy
Vendor
While I agree that Ground Start trunks are the hardware solution, you lose such features as Caller ID, Trunk to Trunk transfer, remote call forwarding. If you have a Magix with 412-TDL cards, your only choice is loop start. I'm sure pooling such as merlinman has suggested will ease the problem considerably.
- Thread starter
- #10
I think your all on the right track. GS loops would eliminate the problem they are all LS trunks.Responding Merlinman's question. The call volume is heavy, but all 19 lines have never been in use at the same time. And the problem generally exists on the first 9 lines. I think your solution will reduce the problem enough to be tolerable until I prepare a T1 solution. Thanks
gregarican
IS-IT--Management
I tend to agree with merlinman's proposed solution, but out of curiosity for the cost of 19 individual loop start lines wouldn't it make financial (as well as feature) sense to just have telco bring in the T-1? Then there will be room for growth, a central pipe to simplify things, etc.
Just my one-and-a-half cents. I guess you'd have to pony up for a 100D card with external CSU (or 100DCD card by itself), but that's the route I would take.
Just my one-and-a-half cents. I guess you'd have to pony up for a 100D card with external CSU (or 100DCD card by itself), but that's the route I would take.
- Thread starter
- #12
The cost break-even point between 1FB's and T1 trunks from our telco here, is about 13 lines. so there are cost savings to be had. I'll prepare a plan to offer to management. Just curious! if I re-arrange the lines in pool 70 to 19-1 instead of 1-19 will outgoing lines start at 19?
Actually, YES and NO. They will, but they are used in a circular fashion.
It is clearly better to just break them up in a few pools with the LAST incoming LINES in the FIRST outgoing POOL.
You don't have to use 5 or 6, 3 or 4 would probably show an improvement.
It is clearly better to just break them up in a few pools with the LAST incoming LINES in the FIRST outgoing POOL.
You don't have to use 5 or 6, 3 or 4 would probably show an improvement.
- Thread starter
- #14
Thanks for all the help, I have applied Merlinmans ARS pool solution and so far I have had no further glare reports, it's only been one day, but prior days produced 2-3 incidents. I will be proposing a T1 solution next week. Also to deal with a (MEL) market expansion line issue, (I didn't know Qwest won't line hunt mel's without charging). I think a terminal hunt group on T1 will fix that issue.
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