Language : Aural influence.

[RCorrigan]

Many discussions here over English - both as a 2nd Lang & pertaining to useage etc. as a 1st.

I learnt French & German as a child (English being my natural lang) and managed to survive some of their itricacies.

My question is , as an adult, who had forgotten most of my 2nd/3rd langs (tho will try for basic with a phrase book/memory for a 2 wk hol or just a phrase book for aomewhere else ) how do you learn another lang whose sound is so so alien.

For some background ... I have recently moved to EIRE ( Souther Ireland) .... I do not NEED to learn the lang, but rather WANT to. The pronunciation, spelling and phonetics of Irish are doing my head in !!!!!!!! Any ideas ????


As a foot note ....... i have deliberately left this post open to grammatic / phonetic / spelling / composition critisism ........ I'm tired, full of cold, lacking chocolate & behind on some paperwork (meaning I'll leave this to simmer till later and come back in a bit !!!)

TIA

Rgds
Richard

<Do I need A Signature or will an X do?>

 

[chiph]

I was stationed in Germany for two years in the mid 1980's, and I occasionally listen to

http://www.radioeins.de

in a sometimes futile attempt to keep my skills up.

Chip H.


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[Chopstik]

Like Chip, the easiest way for me to (re-)learn a language has been to listen to music. Music is usually pretty easy to follow and I can just have it drummed into my head subconsciously... Besides, I usually operate much better subconsciously than I do when I'm conscious. ;-)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I am not young enough to know everything."
Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)

 

[SteveGlo]

There was a program on TV last month where it said that in its first year a baby was at its most receptive to learning sounds and it could mimic any that it heard in its first year.

I must be remembering this incorrectly but the essence was that if you exposed a baby in its first year to a given sound (presumably they meant sounds used in speech rather than jet engine noise or whatever) it would be able to make those sounds when it learned to speak.

After the first year the ability to recognise new sounds in speech diminished. They then quoted the example of peoples who's native languages did not contain certain sounds in other languages and who as adults had great difficukt in speaking those other languages - Japanese adults apparently having difficulty with the English 'R' sound which is not present in Japanese (I may have got that example wrong as well).

I was taught Russian and Arabic as an adult in my twenties and I did have some difficulty at first with some of the letters which have no equivalent in English such as the hard A (ayn?) you get in Arabic. Although I could hear the letter I had trouble making it myself and had to make a very conscious effort to make it and as a consequence over exaggerated it - I must have sounded most bizarre to native Arabic speakers although they were far too polite to be critical.

As to how you learn - patience, practice and perseverence I suppose.

 

[PaulTEG]

RCorrigan, whereabouts in Ireland are you?

There are night/part time classes, and bound to be a few Department of Education sites/programs to help

Google "learning Irish" seems to have some relevant and respectable sites near the top.

Conradh na Gaelige would be a first point of call, depending on your requirements, is it for conversational speaking, reading, writing ...

Go n'éirigh an bothar leat


Spend an hour a week on CPAN, helps cure all known programming ailments ;-)

 

[RCorrigan]

PaulTEG I'm in Dublin (D24 to be exact, but work all over) --- the requirements are simple really, just to be able to watch TG4 & help my step son with his homework !!!

As for the exposing the under ones to language ..... I'm already telling my 4 mth old what his name is in 4 languages !!!!! (I needed help with the Irish !!!!)

<Do I need A Signature or will an X do?>

 

[PaulTEG]

I'm in Naas, just out the road, or what's left of it, should be good by the time of the Ryder Cup ;-)

Are there enough Irish Bods for a Beery Meet(TM)? Or should this be another thread?

--Paul

 

[RCorrigan]

Paul Know Naas ..... have family out there.
That road is a $%£&****@~%$£"~@ at the best of times !!!
Mmmmmmmm Beer ..... Not a bad idea

Irish word of the day .....

Library = Leabharlann ....
pronunciation = Flower without the F & LAN !!!
How ???????

<Do I need A Signature or will an X do?>

 

[PaulTEG]

This looks like a good one

http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=gaelic_learners

pronounce leabharlann

low as in al[low]
were as in we [were]
lan as in [lan]

HTH
--Paul

Spend an hour a week on CPAN, helps cure all known programming ailments ;-)

 

[AngelB]

This is the same country that decided on the pronunciations of the names Siobhan and Roisin. Nope. still don't get it...

Gez



Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all

 

[SteveGlo]

I went into a bookshop in Dublin years ago and asked for a book about the Sidhe - couldn't get one because I had the wrong idea at the time as to how the word was pronounced. (Because I thought I knew how it was pronounced it never occurred to me to write the word down) - still at least I knew enough to buy a Guinness.

 

[PaulTEG]

guinness .... now you're getting it ;-)

Spend an hour a week on CPAN, helps cure all known programming ailments ;-)

 

[tsdragon]

And how DO you pronounce Sidhe? I've seen the word, and thought about buying a book about them myself, but have no idea how it is pronounced.

Tracy Dryden

Meddle not in the affairs of dragons,
For you are crunchy, and good with mustard.

 

[SteveGlo]

Tracy

its Shee as in banshee (bean-sidhe) not sure but I think ban means woman or female hence female fairy whose wailing heralds death in the family.

Steve

 

[PaulTEG]

ban ==> mná (pl) pron. mraw

Spend an hour a week on CPAN, helps cure all known programming ailments ;-)

 

[tsdragon]

Thanks Steve. I'm beginning to believe that spelling and pronunciation have nothing whatsoever to do with each other in Gaelic.

Tracy Dryden

Meddle not in the affairs of dragons,
For you are crunchy, and good with mustard.

 

[PaulTEG]

Tracy,

This might be enlightening ...

http://celticsociety.freeservers.com/sidhe.html

It appears the "white lady" is just one of the sidhe, it's my first time across this, ...

It seems a little O/T, but the derivation of "banshee", seems to come from "white lady of the sidhe", which should be something like "bean bán sí" (ban bawn shee), or "Bean Sí Bán" (ban shee bawn) ... it's been a while

;-) Must admit, never got all that from "Darby O'Gill and the little people"

Spend an hour a week on CPAN, helps cure all known programming ailments ;-)

 

[tsdragon]

Paul: thanks for the link, I'll take a look at it. Most of what I know about the sidhe is from references I've run across in various SF and Fantasy books I've read. I finally realized that there is a whole area of mythology there that I know nothing about. Since I like mythology, I've wanted to read up on it, but haven't gotten around to it yet.

Tracy Dryden

Meddle not in the affairs of dragons,
For you are crunchy, and good with mustard.