Keyword rank well in MSN but not in Google or Yahoo - Strange 3

[IEAN]

I read in a post in this forum
"The stock answer is if you are doing well in MSN and Yahoo but not in Google then links are the missing ingredient..."

That is some what the case for one of the keyword for our site as well, that keyword ranks well in MSN(#2), Yahoo back in page 5, Google back in page 5 or 6.

So if not enough links is the issue, I have a few questions:

First question is, how do you get more links? By writing to relevant site and asking? Do people actually respond to this type of request? Second of all in order for people to link to you, you usually have to link them back, but isn't outbound links to other sites consider detrimental to your ranking?

Second quesiton is, do any of you use Web Position Gold or Bruce Clay's SEOtoolsets? Are they good? Do they work?

Third question is, I have another keyword for another page that ranks #1 constantly in Google. Funny thing is, the structure, keyword placement of this #1 ranking page is very similar to the one that is back in page 5 and 6 I mentioned earlier, and the competitivness of the 2 keywords is about the same...I just don't understand...Any ideas?

Fourth question is, when you request people to link to you, should I ask them to link to my homepage or the secondary page that I want to rank well for?

Please advise, thanks!

 

[ChrisHirst]

Yahoo and Google are both more link driven than MSN. The difference is that Google places far more ranking weight on the anchor text of the links than Yahoo.

Getting Links;
The idea that you need thousands of links to get rankings is completely wrong, It's only kept going by the very people who have a vested interest in it being believed, the link sellers. The vast majority of sites could easily get by with a few good quality links using appropriate anchor text.
Search out niche and general directories and submit to them, Link requests is definitely a thankless, boring and inefficient way of gaining links unless you are a little innovative and look beyond the confines of the "link request email"

Reciprocal and Outbound linking;
Another myth, If anything, outgoing links to on topic sites / pages will actually help give your pages gain some weight as an authority on the subject. Linking to off topic or random sites/pages does not help in the same way.
Keep your recip linking to pages that are good for your visitors and you can't go far wrong.

Never used tools at all. They can only work to a pre-programmed formula, and you have found (third question) SEO isn't about formulas, it's more art than science.

link to and request links for the most appropriate page or a page that would be complimentary for the page,
eg;
you sell boots and shoes, so complimentary links (that visitors may find useful) could be pages/sites about;
Socks.
walking/hiking/climbing,
pages that sell a similar product that are not in direct competition,
and more, the limit is your thoughts on what visitors could also be looking for.



Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Woo Hoo! the cobblers kids get new shoes.
People Counting Systems

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

 

[ChrisHunt]

First question is, how do you get more links? By writing to relevant site and asking? Do people actually respond to this type of request?

It depends on the people, the site they're running and the page you want them to link to. You run a web site, so write an email that you would have responded to and send that! You've nothing to lose by asking.

Second of all in order for people to link to you, you usually have to link them back, but isn't outbound links to other sites consider detrimental to your ranking?

If you're talking about PageRank, there's no penalty to having external links. Pages accumulate PR from all the other pages that link to them, they don't leech it away by linking to other pages. Think about it, how would it improve an SE's results to penalise pages that have links on them?

Second quesiton is, do any of you use Web Position Gold or Bruce Clay's SEOtoolsets? Are they good? Do they work?

I don't know - there are a lot of snake oil salesmen in this field, so I'm pretty suspicious - I think the usefulness of a tool is generally in inverse proportion to the claims made for it. The ones to definitely avoid are ones which submit your site to "1000s of search engines", or ones which resubmit your site every few months - one's gonna get you mountains of spam, the other just isn't necessary.

Should I ask them to link to my homepage or the secondary page that I want to rank well for?

Whatever would be relevant to them. From a pure SEO perspective, we'd like them to point to a particular page within our site, using particular text for the link, on a page with few other outbound links, etc. The trouble is, the more prescriptive you are about how the link should be made, the less likely you are to get one. So don't obsess about it - just ask for a link and let them worry about it.

Incidentally, the best tool for garnering incoming links is some useful content. Say you're a commercial site trying to sell widgets. Add pages on "how widgets are made", "how to choose the best widget for you", "the history of the widget", "101 great widget projects", etc. That's the sort of thing that people are going want to link to, rather than just another widget-seller's site.

-- Chris Hunt
Webmaster & Tragedian
Extra Connections Ltd

 

[IEAN]

Thank you Chris Hirst & Chris Hunt for your invaluable advise - THANK YOU!