Jobs 1

[Guest_imported]

I am in 11th grade and will soon be out there in the real world. I want to be a visual basic 6 and SQL programmer. I really cant afford college. Could I get a job without a degree and no experience? I am ok right now in VB6 but by the end of summer I should be able to be pretty good. I hope to get an internship or lowend IT job while in my senior year so I can get my foot in the door. What would in your opinion be my best course of action.

I would be very thankful for any advice because I am kinda confused.

Thanks.

 

[Craig0201]

Excellent idea, Fireforce.......

It will prove pretty difficult to find that sort of job in my opinion.....

How about trying to get some projects with small businesses who need software but don't have the IT staff? Will probably prove more fruitful.....but remember to pitch LOW price!!!!

Also, consider switching to .NET programming.....VB6 will only be supported for 5 more years or so......and you've got plenty of time (and hopefully projects!!) to learn it.....

Craig

 

[crystalized]

You may also want to consider doing some volunteer work. Crystal
crystalized_s@yahoo.com

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Experience is one thing you can't get for nothing.

-Oscar Wilde

 

[BeckahC]

I came to work where I am with no college or experience. I found that I had to work my way up. I started as a bill payment clerk, started college once I was eligible for their tuition reinbursement, and went on to be an analytical clerk. After 4 years of moving up I finally got an entry level position in Info Management and have been working my way up here since last year and have already received 1 promotion.

With no degree or experience it is a very tough road ahead. I would recommend getting a part time job, any part-time job and holding it for more than 6 months. That doesn't necessarily show experience in your field, but it does show dedication and responsibility, which can be very helpful in your future job searches. If they see that you can hold a job and not quit or be fired for a length of time, they see that as a positive trait. No one wants to hire someone who might go through their training and then leave a couple of months later. BeckahC

 

[pfist]

I am really impressed with your attitude and foresight. You are going to make it.

As far as finances go, I take it that you are living at home? Good. Have your parents continue to pay for your food and housing, in effect subsidizied your focus on learning the skills necessary to get the work and skills you desire.

Someone above suggested you get a part-time job. Let me say that any job--or anything--that distracts you from learning your programming skills should be avoided. You only have so much time and energy. Use them wisely. The best part-time job is a programming job. Even if minimum wage, you will be getting paid to learn the skills that you are doing for free, now, on a part-time basis. Learning is so much easier when you have a specific goal/objective. With a job you will get the necessary problem which needs to be solved. Also, when it is time to move on, that programming experience looks very good on a resume.

You need to pick the skill sets/objectives in advance. Again you have limited time and energy so why waste it on skill sets that are in decline. I admit to having a bias against VB and the Microsoft world. My backgound is Oracle database development with a fair amout of Java experience. However, I have warmed up to the potential of making a living doing .NET development.

I expect a good future in having C# programming language skills. I suspect C# plays an important part in the .NET solution. ( The downside is that I suspect there is not much literature on the subject now. Also, finding work that uses C# must be diffucult for someone in highschool. ) Note that C# is very similar to Java.

So, may I suggest you look at JAVA? There is a great deal of literature--in book form and on the internet--from which to get knowledge. I just did some GUI programming using Swing components and I found the tutorials at Sun more helpful than any $40 dollar book on the subject.

Check out:

http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/

http://java.sun.com/j2ee/tutorial

http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/onlineTraining/

Also:

http://java.sun.com/

http://www.javaworld.com/

Some of the best bang for the buck that I have ever seen are the Sun and Microsoft certifications. Having a pertinent certification can be very helpful for getting a job.
If the Java avenue is open to you, then the Sun Java Programmer Certification will help to get a job--$150. See:

http://suned.sun.com/US/certification/java/index.html

Microsoft has similar certifications.

I am presently in an area that doesn't have much in the way of Oracle/Java development. I tend to see mostly small businesses stuck with old IBM mainframe or AS400 systems or maybe some Microsoft solutions using ASP etc. You need to find out what kind of work is available near where you live and try to aquire such skills as are necessary.

These skills however incomplete--in combination with a very attractive price--will produce the interest in you and get you the work that will develop your skills further. More skills and more experience using those skills will translate in future to more opportuinities to acquire more desirable skills or more money.

One last thing. For most employers, whether they admit it or not will never consider you as employee because you do not have a four year undergraduate degree. You must not put this aside. At some point go to work for an employer that will pay for your education. The best employers will not consider you without degree!

pfist

 

[Guest_imported]

Yeah my uncle did that, he started working for westinghouse and they told him they wanted him to get a certain degree and they paid for him to go to school at night. I also thought about the MCSD but they say you should have at least 1 year of work behind you before you consider the exams. If I were to become very good at VB6 and at SQL/Access databases, when making out my resume, what kinda pay should I ask for? I dont want to go to high but also dont want to be working for pennies. I also considered writing down my other skills, Some of which are, Software installation and troubleshooting, operation system upgrades and installs,data backup.

I have done a fair amount of research on databases developers and programmers, and have seen their salaries are nice. I would never try on my first job to pull in what they claim.


On average what would you say my pay scale would be on. like 30-45K, 45-60K, or what? I read a report saying MCSDs make on average 78,000 a year!, this sound a little high. I could see getting that much after about 4-7 years but not at first.

 

[pfist]

Money at this point is not your objective. The only thing you want is experience. Your next employer is probably going to be a small 2 or 3 man operation that can barely afford an extra employee. I never put my salary requirements up front. You shouldn't give any salary requirements and quite frankly at this point you should not have any salary requirements. Where are you geographically? If you are in a major city or suburban area in an important state then you will have more potential employers, more opportunities. If you are in a small state and/or in rural area then your options are very limited.

Again money is not your objective. What you want is a job that lets you learn what you want to learn and doen't waste your time and energy learning what is not important and will not be a high demand skill in future. ( Having high demand skills acquired through substantial amount of real work experience will get you more money, but not in current job. With proven skills and experience you will be able get new job with either more money or better opportunities to acquire even more desirable skills. ) If you can find a position that lets you work your butt off trying to solve your employer's software problems you are willing to work almost for free. And when you get that first job, they will be paying your more than you are worth--after one year of experience you will be worth more to them than they are paying you. Unfortunately, that is the way the world works.

BTW, I should mention one more thing. You are in high school. So what are you studying?

I see large differences in ability amongst my peers. One of the biggest skill sets a person needs in having a successful career is COMMNUNICATION SKILLS. Viewing my software development peers and fellow programmers, I have been most impressed with people with an educational backgound heavy in the liberal arts; i.e. english, foreign languages, history, logic, philosophy. Two of the sharpest people I have ever met in my software career had a lot of foreign language studies in past. The one person had four years of Latin in high school and three years of German in college. The other had seven years of Latin through high school and college. Odds are good that you don't like such subject areas but you have one year left to get something useful out that babysitting institution they call high school! Senior year, take a year of latin and any english classes that are heavy on essay writing. Latin and english will make you a cleared thinker and will help to clear the cob webs our of your mind. Trust me on this.

pfist

 

[Guest_imported]

I live in Pennsyvania, about five mile outside of pittsburgh. Using a bus I get to downtown in less than an hour. They are lots of Corps there. Mellon,Federated and the like. As for my classes I take the same ones the kids in school take. IE- Biology, Algebra,History,Literature that kinda stuff. All my programming skills are self taught since my school doesnt even have a decent computer class.


I thought the same thing about the money issue. I would just like to make enough to live on. You know get out of the house pay bills, live basically. I aint lookin for easy cash like I see alot of people taking an interest in IT because they say, "dude you can make XXX amount of cash". they dont realize that to make the big $$ you have to have big SKILLS. Ideally I would love to sign up with a company that will pay for schooling, and go for college that way. Not because I will get paid more in I have a degree but because I will learn more.

 

[BeckahC]

It sounds like you have some very realistic, healthy goals and I wish you all the best! BeckahC