Job Offer 4

[Swi]

I have been working as a programmer in the direct mail field for the past 8 years. It was my first job outside of school. I have made great salary strides as of late by moving jobs and have just left an employer due to the amount of hours I was working. To me, family is the most important. I thought I had found a good match with my current employer but am falling back into working more hours. The standard line is, 'This is how the industry is' which has a lot of truth to it (I am finding that out). Anyway, the point is that my old employer offered me my old job back. I would get paid 5K more than what I am making at my current employer as well as a 20% bonus at the end of the year. I should also mention that I would be a programming team leader. Benefits are also MUCH better and they are an international company. Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Swi

 

[paterson]

sounds like you left on relatively good terms. How did you feel when you worked there? Did you leave for any other reason beside hours? Do you have aspirations for getting even further in your career such as management? Does your wife/family like the idea of more money and benefits?

If the company/job made you miserable before, why step back into it? But if you only left in consideration of hours, why not get more out of it?

 

[pmonett]

What is the drawback ? I don't find any in what you say.
So I'd go for it. Seems your old employer has come to realize your worth, which puts you in a stronger negociating position. Next time you try stomping your foot, he's more liable to listen.
As for hours, yeah, programming is not really a 9 to 5 job unless you work government. All you can really do is watch out for the worst exploitation measures, otherwise, crunch time is always lurking near you, you have to accept that.

My personal opinion is that I no longer do overtime for companies. I have given a lot of time (including weekends) for corporate projects without any recognition, not even a smile. You take that for a few years, then you get downsized without even a "sorry mate, we really regret it".
Kind of put my perspective back in place.
Nowadays, if the boss is incapable of correctly forecasting the workload, does not listen to the warning signals, is unwilling to get more resources and is putting the blame on everything but his poor management, I won't do a minute more than necessary. I fail to why I should constinuously pay the price on my personal time. I also have a family, and I prefer seeing my daughter grow up.
On the other hand, I will do overtime for my boss if he bears his share of the workload, dishes out the blame fairly and puts his butt on the line to shield us from unnecessary political bickering. For a guy like that, I'll do weekends if necessary, because I know that when he asks ; first: it really is necessary and second: he'll owe up to me down the line.
I can do overtime, but only when I respect the guy who's asking. The company ? It doesn't care about me, so why should I worry about it (outside of doing my work correctly, of course) ? The company will fire me when it sees fit to, whether I'm good or not. If I'm not, it'll just come quicker.

My two cents worth.

Pascal.

 

[Swi]

Thank you for your viewpoints.

paterson,

Hours was the main reason but my old boss was part of the problem as well. There was no advocate for us in the department. They told me when I left that they were grooming me for my boss's position but at that time I told them that I made a commitment to my current employer and had to make good on my promise. My family loves the idea of more money and better benefits as right now I am on some of my wife's benefits because they are cheaper. I have meant with my previous employer and voiced my concern about long hours on a consistent basis and some of my old friends there have said it has lightened up a bit since a new director (someone I recommended when I left) was hired in. I also agree that if I am going to be working the hours anyway I might as well get paid more to do it and get better benefits.

pmonett,

They actually already sent me a offer letter and it was a good offer but I countered and ask for some of my potential bonus to be turned into salary due to it costing me more to get to work because of gas prices (I have a rather long commute at both jobs, round trip is 2 hours plus). You have a good point about being more willing to work for someone you have respect for. I used to work for the new director that they hired in and I have nothing but respect for him and he is doing great things for the company.

Again, I really appreciate the comments.

Swi

 

[imterpsfan3]

I'd personally be wary of going back to a situation where I was unhappy. If it happened before, chances are good it can happen again. Sort of like going back to that old girlfriend who just all of a sudden called. It seems life can be cyclical and you always run into the same situations until you conquer them.

I would say throw the money out of the picture and take the situation where you are going to be happiest. Benefits to me are worth more than salary.

It seems you have the right priorities...family first.

I also agree with the above post about working overtime. The more you give the more they are going to take without appreciating...most companies that is.

However if you left that first job on good terms that's a different story.

Microsoft Certified Solutions Developer -- Visual Basic 6
Microsoft Certified Applications Developer C# (in the works)

 

[Swi]

Thanks for the comments imterpsfan3. I am almost sure I am going to return to my old employer. The pros more than exceeded the cons when I compared the companies side by side and the industry I am in I just need to come to grips with the fact that I will be working overtime. If I am going to have to work the hours I might as well get better pay and benefits while I am doing it.

Swi

 

[kHz]

If you did not like the hours before, what makes you think you will like them now? More money? Maybe for awhile, but then the hours will get to you again.

Most people who accept counteroffers from their current company still leave within 6 months because the same factors that drove them to look in the first place (for the most part) still exist. Even more money doesn't keep them.

A lead will be expected to work more hours. It seems you are making a circle.

 

[Swi]

That is how I feel, 'It seems you are making a circle'. The issue is that once you get so much experience in a field that you start commanding a certain salary. My expertise is in writing direct mail applications via VB, FoxPro, etc... I make within the 58-62K range (without bonus) and work in the MD area and live in York, PA. PA pay much less than MD so that is why I have an hour plus one way commute. To top it off, the direct mail industry is demanding as far as hours go. A 55 - 60 hour work week (no counting commuting) is normal. So if you average in hours (without traffic) I am basically away from home about 72 + hours a week. I am actually working the same amount of hours where I am at that I used to work at my old job. I also forgot to mention that in the months leading up to me leaving my previous job that they promoted me to manager but the director above me was not the man for the job. I know the new director (that I recommended when I left) and he seems to be turning things around a bit.

Swi