IT - The mythological job

[deputydoofy]

I have been interested in computers since the age of 12, doing programming BASIC for as long as I can remember. Went to school for computer science (took the *ahem* 10-year program) and got my Bachelor's.

I always thought I wanted to be a programmer. Sometimes, I still do. However, now I would love to be project manager. Of course, the dilemma is that I have no professional experience. So, for now, I am in IT but more of grunt work (software/hardware support). I do a bit of programming "on the side" here, but mainly using HMTL, CSS, and Javascript.

I work for a pretty big company whose programmers, to me, are less than stellar. Don't get me wrong. They know all the current technologies much better than I do, but that's it. They have no concept of the business (even after the last 4 years of working on this program), nor do they listen to many suggestions. If this program were mine, I would be denying that fact. It is one of the worst programs I have ever seen.

I do keep my programming alive as best I can. I still play around with languages such as c++, objective-c, javascript, and I've been doing a lot of reading on PHP, Java, XML, and other stuff. Time, however, does not let me practice every single one of these things regularly.

Ranting aside, I KNOW that, if given the chance, I could run circles around these guys but that option will never be given to me (here). It's a shame that these sub-standard programmers will continue to obtain a much higher salary for making bad applications.

Life...

 

[Glenn9999]

As they say, skill languishes at the thought of being discovered. And it's a rare eye as a manager that can see skill, appreciate it, and not see it as a threat to their jobs.

If I had to go back and do it all over again, I would have never gotten into IT because of my initial love of programming. You will never ultimately get that kind of freedom and joy out of writing programs for companies - a lot of bosses and a lot of people in general have a way of completely taking every bit of the joy out of anything. Usually with bureaucracy, but there's always some people that can't stand anyone having joy at anything (and you see that anyplace - even these forums).

I know I've found that I will never have the freedom and joy working in a job that I had as a hobbyist programmer in creating things. A programmer only codes what he is told with very little freedom to develop and innovate, and a project manager is just that. A manager - they manage people, they manage money, they manage process. Most of them will never have full contact of a program from design all the way through coding.

Sometimes hobbies are better left hobbies.

 

[deputydoofy]

You are so right. It is better left as a hobby. However, I tend to like my current position as hardware/software support. While it's not exactly where I want to be, it's not very demanding, which gives me time to research different programming/scripting languages online and to read the many books I keep buying.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/doofymusic

 

[benlinkknilneb]

deputydoofy,

You'll probably have to change companies to get a start as a project manager. It sounds like you get the table scraps from this company.

If that's your dream, go for it! I actually find myself in the same boat. I was the guy who wrote games for everyone's calculators in high school. I wanted to be a programmer. Now I find myself drawn to the role of project manager, because there's more *design* in that. If you work for a big company as a programmer, you can easily become just a glorified typewriter. You code the stuff that someone else created. And it's the creation in programming that attracts me to it, personally. I love to build the idea.

If you wish to pursue this, start looking for a smaller company. Small companies need experienced people, but often they can't afford the creme de la creme, so they look for a less experienced person who will work for a little less. Once you've got the experience, you can go wherever you want.

Ben

There's no place like 127.0.0.1.

 

[deputydoofy]

Ben, you are 1000% percent correct. It really is the design and creation that I like more than the actual coding. If I had to simply code what someone else wanted and not have any freedom to be creative, that would defeat the point.
I think project manager is my ultimate goal, but my experience has not yet led me to that. I realize that a lot of managers are quite myopic in their decisions, but I'd like to think that I would let "my programmers" be creative as long as the goals were still met.
I don't yet want to leave this company so, for now, I'll stick it out and see where it all leads.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/doofymusic

 

[hilfy]

Glen9999 and deputydoofy,

There ARE programming jobs out there where you can have joy and pride in your work - I know because I have one.

I was lucky in that the first two programming jobs I had were for small companies and, for a while at the second one I was the only programmer. In both places I became the "expert" on the older software that I maintained and on the new software that I wrote. At the second employer, I designed and managed the move of the software from DOS to Windows.

When I moved into the larger corporate world 5 years ago (and changed industries as well), it took me a while to move out of the programming "drone" type work. But by making it a point to work with the users and make sure that what I was working on - maintenance work as well as new code - did what they needed it to do, and learning a lot about the business we're in, I've worked my way into a position where I'm the "go to" person for a number of the pieces of our system and I started doing project management work about a year ago in addition to coding.

I guess my point is that you have to find the right environment - in many ways smaller companies are better when you're just starting out programming - and then you have to pay your dues and bust your butt to show that you're willing to go the extra mile and produce quality work that goes above the bare minimum to get the job done while remembering that most software is about the user, not about all of the gee-whiz, cool new technology stuff that the user may no get any real benefit from.

-Dell

A computer only does what you actually told it to do - not what you thought you told it to do.

 

[svanels]

If you have ambitions to be a project manager without the necessary experience, small companies are the way to go.

Why?, because probably you will the only one understanding a little more of computers/software.

You will be project manger, helpdesk, coder/programmer, maintenance guy, in short everything. This experience will be invaluable when you move on later one, and like a "real" projectmanger, your subordinates probably will not b.s. you, because you once have been in "their" place.
OK this all depends largely of yourself and the time/money/dedication you put in building your own career.

Steven

 

[benlinkknilneb]

svanels is right. I work in a fairly large company, but there's a small IT department; I don't work at the corporate level, where there are half a dozen people in each sector of IT. I work in one of the plants as the on-site guy. There's me and my boss to get ALL the computing stuff done here. We manage the network, the backup systems, database programming, you name it. While I don't have anyone below me to manage on a project, I get to do the design AND the programming. That's great, let me tell you. Someday I'd like to have a programmer or 2 to work with, and at that time, I'll be a manager. For now, I'm happy with what we've got.

Get in with the little guys, give 'em more than they paid for, and you'll be rewarded with a career path that takes you however far you want to go.

Ben

There's no place like 127.0.0.1.

 

[ChrisHunt]

The skills that you need to be a good (Project) Manager are very different to those needed as a programmer. You maybe a kick-ass coder, but that won't help you when you're main job is to get the best out of other peoples' coding ability (even if they're "less than stellar").

I've known some great coders who've become lousy managers (I was once in danger of being one of them myself, till I found an alterntive career path). I've also known some great managers who were lousy coders (or not coders at all).

One of the skills you'd need to become a good manager is the ability to express yourself well. I've no idea what you meant by

If this program were mine, I would be denying that fact.

Which program is this? And if (whatever it is) is a fact, why deny it?

Larger shops are generally more stratified as to who does what - having analysts to do the design, programmers to do the coding, etc. If you're looking for a broader role, small companies are probably the way to go.

-- Chris Hunt
Webmaster & Tragedian
Extra Connections Ltd

 

[deputydoofy]

Chris, what I meant by that statement is that the main application is so bad, I'd never want to put my name on it. It would be like a "reverse resume." Here's the reason to NOT hire me. Look at this crappy piece of software I wrote for a major, fortune 500 company.

The software has been a "work in progress" for at least 4-5 years. Fixes that could take 5 minutes sometimes take either months to be "rolled out," or never see the light of day. Fine, I understand red-tape, but they spend more time changing "terms" than fixing problems. Wow. They changed some text. Now it says "A" instead of "B." And, they get excited about it. They post an alert on our intranet site. Ridiculous.

I never claimed that I could be the perfect manager, but I work well with most people and I'd be just as willing to "get my hands dirty" working on code

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/doofymusic

 

[rosieb]

deputydoofy

Project Management is very different to coding, and there's not much design and creation. PM is mainly about setting schedules and getting people to keep to them.

Can you get people to do what you want them to? Persuade, cajole, bully, bribe - whatever it takes. It means dealing with people from a wide variety of functions, not just programmers. Negotiating what is possible, within the project scope, with senior end-users.

The main skills needed are interpersonal skills, you will also need to be very thick-skinned, very determined, good at handling local "politics". And you'll probably need to be good at making coffee and buying cakes - or your local equivalent.

Oh, and most people will hate you, and you'll be blamed for everything!

PM is fun!! But make sure you're suited to it.

Rosie
"Never express yourself more clearly than you think" (Niels Bohr)

 

[ChrisHunt]

I'd be just as willing to "get my hands dirty" working on code

The biggest challenge for coders-turned-mangagers can be to resist the temptation to "get your hands dirty". That's no longer your job. Your job is to get a team of other people to produce a product that you can be proud of - and it's a full-time job too. If you're forever pitching into the coding and doing your coders' work, who's doing yours? How are they going to develop their skills? Are you sure you're not micromanaging them?

-- Chris Hunt
Webmaster & Tragedian
Extra Connections Ltd