Is Netware a viable product 1

[fbizzell]

Stupid question I know but every consultant I talk to about network operating systems tells us we should dump Netware and either go to Windows Server or Linux. We have used Netware starting at 3.0 until now at 5.1 and we are beginning to have issues with our server and it probably has nothing to do with the operating system but if there is anyone that has switched from Netware to one of these other systems I would be interested in whether or not you have any words of wisdom or advice.

 

[marvhuffaker]

You're talking to the wrong consultants.

The people that say go to windows -- I've had this conversation with MANY MANY integrators, consultants, etc.. They can't make money supporting NetWare because once it's configured correctly, it's solid. The only way to make money is a) Doing the netware to windows migration and B) benefiting from the residual downtime you'll have and support you will inevitably need once you switch to windows.

They aren't going to tell YOU the customer that. Instead they play the "netware is dead" game and "Nobody uses it" and "It's only file and print" etc etc etc. If they keep you on NetWare, they'll never make any money. Plus they can't afford to keep a Novell person on staff if their primary focus is on Windows. So the Novell people they have, if any, aren't very good. I see this all the time. I clean up after these people ALL the time.

There are plenty of shops out there that DO HAVE NetWare expertise on staff, and that is their primary focus. Those are the consultants you need to be talking to. Yes they will cost more than the average "we do everything" shop. But the long term cost is much less.

Linux is the direction Novell is heading, but not everybody is ready for it. NetWare will be around for many years, so don't feel like you need to jump ship.

Also, you need to realize that nowadays, it's more about services.. Not just the server. What do you need to run your business? What will do the best for you? Most of the Novell services are cross platform and will even run on Windows. And you don't need to be "All or Nothing".. It's okay to have NetWare and Windows in the same network.

Marvin Huffaker, MCNE

http://www.redjuju.com

 

[Datong]

YES !

I whole heartedly agree with Marv. Novell is a solid product when done correctly. The support companies are out there to rip you off as they know you will spend far more on support and downtime on MS than with Novell.

 

[fbizzell]

Thanks for the comments. They are very helpful.

 

[iolair]

Absolutely, Marv! I have Netware servers, Windows servers, and Unix/Linux servers on my network. Why? Because different servers do different things. The main thing is, though, the only time I ever touch the Netware servers is to add or delete users, or to apply a service pack, if the service pack serves my organization some useful purpose.

Iolair MacWalter

 

[NetworkDOC]

In theory all are good right, all certainly have flaws? If you look at the market and what is being installed in most new implementations that is a great indicator of the leader and who will be around for a while.

I would suggest as you begin to determine what is the correct path for you and your company that you get quotes from a few sources for each product you determine to be in the running. For example, 2 from a novell source, 2 from a Windows source, and 2 from a linux source. These seem to be the major players now a days. You cannot discredit the millions of people using M/S products without issues, just as you cannot with Novell, or even Linux.

The main reason most people choose one over the other is familiarity with that product. It is easier to stick with something that you know than to have to learn the whole thing. Pricing is a factor. Costs to consider are who will do the work? You or someone else? If its some one else, all or partial? Then the licensing parts enter in. Hardware is a mutual point they all need good hardware to run on.

What do you want to do? Messaging? Web servers? Fax and print? Terminal services? Application/database servers? Remote conenctions? Grant VPN access?

The numbers of users you have will also help decide what you will go with. For example M/S has the small business server platform that for $499 per 5 users is a sweet deal. It includes the server os, web servers, email, terminal services fax services, remote access ability and runs like a top. This is good for up to 75 users (a hard limit imposed by M/S).

Sounds like you have alot of thinking/reading to do my friend. To explore all options is a good idea.

 

[fbizzell]

Thanks again for these valuable comments.

Currently our server is primarily a application/database server. We are not granting any VPN access and we do not use our server for faxing. Most of the printing that we do takes place at the individual workstations, although we do have two or three network printers attached to individual print servers. We are reading and writing to databases constantly and that is by far the heaviest load on the server.

I have been very happy with Novell and really don't want to change but others in my organization are determined to move us to Windows or Linux. They make a good argument when they say we can move to a Linux server for $0 investment with only $1499 year for support. On the other hand Moving to Windows 2003 server has been quoted at $25,000 initial investment and $6500 year for software assurance plan. I am only talking operating system here not hardware.

 

[lgarner]

The key is that switching systems for the sake of switching isn't a good investment no matter how you look at it. If you have needs that your current platform can't meet, then it's time to consider switching. To replace one system with another that does the same thing is simply a waste.

NetworkDoc makes a good point regarding prices and quotes, but make sure that any pricing includes everything necessary to get where you want to be. Comparing the costs of different systems that're simply dropped at your door isn't meaningful- consider installation, integration and training costs as well. Include time, both for the personnel involved in any conversion as well as any downtime that may be required.

 

[marvhuffaker]

NetworkDoc - What happens with MS Small Biz server when you hit 75 users and need to go to 80? Is it a reinstall?



Marvin Huffaker, MCNE

http://www.redjuju.com

 

[pagy]

To answer marvhuffaker question;
There is a transition pack that will allow you to upgrade the small biz server to a W2K3 standard or enterprise endition depending on your needs.

 

[rudis]

Again and again;
A competent admin will seek for the OS which serves best for your biz. and your customers needs for a reasonable price - as some folks already stated. Some license-$s will not help you to save real money. If you have users that love to work and hate to wait, then do only touch Windows if you have applications that turn really nowhere else. Marv is right - people are deceived by presentation, not by knowledge.

We currently migrate Win-Servers to UNIX for a global carmaker who is desperately lost with his Win-machines in running several Oracle-Databaseinstances on each machine. Win2003 still has difficulties in memoryhandling. If they hadn't dropped Netware they wouldn't know this problems.
Netware 5.1 is reliable and compared to UNIX/Linux much easier to manage with its native standardtools; though Novell itself might have tuned Linux-managementtools a bit.
In a small company I use Netware 5.1 for Databases and Mail/Fax-applications with rather few hazzle. Any migration to sth else would have been a waste of time.

As someoneelse in the forum already stated
Linux for development
Netware to serve
Apple for productivity
Windows for solitaire and to be served, patched,
"REALTIMEPROTECTED", rebootet, reinstalled,
memoryupgraded ...

Rudi

Take heed - for he will try to deceive many ...

 

[jim532]

Now go post this same question in the Windows forum and you will hear how great microsoft is and how bad Novell is. Ask this question in the Linux forum and they will say how both microsoft and novell are horrible. The best advice any consultant would give is to use whatever best fits your needs for the task you want to accomplish.

 

[sstoppel]

One huge advantage to NetWare 6.5 is that you essentially license users, but can make as many servers as you like. If I need a special purpose web server, I build it. Same for database, a GroupWise post office, a dedicated backup server, a VirtualOffice portal server, whatever. No additional licensing required.

The way I see it, and my boss agrees, every penny we don't spend on Windows servers gets spread around at bonus time.

 

[SeanAIX430]

A quick insight from my situation. I have 3 locations, about 20 users at each, fairly basic email/database. I had 3 novell servers, and now I have 3 windows servers. The hardware went from 120Mhz, 256m for the secondaries and 400Mhz 512M for the primary, upgraded to 2.8Ghz 1.2G Ram at each location and I swear we're probably slower than before! And I have to touch the Windows servers WAY more than Novell.

 

[sstoppel]

Well, you can make the best of the situation by hiring an Exchange admin and a guy to manage patching for you. Then you will supervise 2 people and get a raise.