Tek-Tips is the largest IT community on the Internet today!

Members share and learn making Tek-Tips Forums the best source of peer-reviewed technical information on the Internet!

  • Congratulations IamaSherpa on being selected by the Tek-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!

Is it my turn...

Status
Not open for further replies.

CasperTFG

Programmer
Nov 15, 2001
1,210
US
I am wanted to get a few peoples opinion on this?

First off a little background. I started with this company, straight out of college 5 years ago. I began in the support department with a very nominal salary. Within a year, I had demonstrated my skills enough that I was moved to a position of Jr. Programmer and given an 18% increase to bring into the lower 20% the job grade pay, with a promise of another 15% the next year.

Then the next year the company was bought out and under the new ownership my promised 15% diminished to 3%. I should note that this all happened the same year that the Tech industry flopped, Nortel et al. So then for the next 2 years with the job market all but stopped I was used and abused by the company. Given work that senior programmers should be doing and all without any pay increase for the past 2 years.

My quality of work however pushed me up to be the second best programmer in the department. This year a new manager was put in charge of my department and when she learned how much I was being paid her jaw literally dropped in disbelief. She agreed with me that I should be making a minimum of 40% more, if not 60% more.

She has been pushing to get me at least a 15% increase, which is 5% over the maximum the company will allow for a raise in a 12-month period. Now that is much less than I should be earning. But I love my job, the people are great, the work is challenging and there are other pirks such as Health benefits, so I would be willing to go with the 15% and hope for another 15% next year.

But the question I have is this. The job market is opening back up again. I could easily find a job elsewhere for 30 to 50% more than I am earning now. The company is willing to give me half of that to keep me, because I am the only person qualified enough in my department to complete certain tasks that must be done this year.

For the past 2 years this company has basically held me hostage with abysmal pay because they knew there was no where else I could go. But now that there are places I can go and I know that without me they will miss all of their targets for this year. Should I now hold them hostage when they need me most and demand more than the 20% increase?

Is it my turn to take advantage?


Casper

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
~Frank Sinatra
 
I don't think you're taking advantage of anything. You're just furthing your personal interests.

Even if you are taking advantage of a situation, the situation was created by your employer, not by you.

If you find a better-paying position, I don't think you have any reason to not leave.

Want the best answers? Ask the best questions: TANSTAAFL!!
 
What sleipnir214 has said is quite correct. But I would also factor in a coupld of other things.

Your new manager seems to be your advocate and is going to bat for you, and that can be worth quite a bit, not just in this situation, but in other aspects of the job. Hard to put a price on that, but it is definately worth something. That may be quite difficult to find elsewhere. Given that she is on your side, and fighting for you, I would absolutely consider giving her the chance to do right by you, especially given that you enjoy the situation. The long term gain could far outweigh short term gains in salary elsewhere.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
 
Aboslutley not. I would never as my mother puts it "Burn bridges". I have openly told my new manager that It would take X dollars for me to take a job elsewhere, and X - 5,000 dollars to make me not even look.

I ahve also told her that I find it despicable what other staff members have done in the past by saying I found another job, this is what it will cost to keep me. I find that untrustworthy. I told her that if I found another job that I wanted to take it, I would take the job and there would be no amount of money that would keep me.

She knows what X is and that it would be reasonable for me to get it elswehere. What my manager is hoping to get me is 12,000 (CDN Dollars) under what it would cost to have me stay.

And as much as I would appretiate the 15% more, with a promise of another 15% in the next year. I have found my trust for the company very questionable.

I do believe my new Mgr and the VP who have said they want to get me this. But I know that neither of them really has any say, all they can do is suggest. It's now up to the board of directors any decision that is made. And their word is final.

I think that's my biggest fear is that I have been lied to in the past, although the future looks brighter than it did 2 years ago. I am still following that old adage, hurt me once, shame on you. Hurt me again and shame on me...

Casper

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
~Frank Sinatra
 
Oh and Hey Cajun... It's been a long time since I've been on the board, I used to post in the Visual Basic forum, but as my post indicates I have been working like a dog for the past 2 years. Not much time to post anymore.

Casper

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
~Frank Sinatra
 
Even with it in writing... There is still the 3 month probationary period where anything can happen... Hence the has to be 5,000 more than I am earning here.

Casper

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
~Frank Sinatra
 
Hang on a mo' am I missing something?

"But I love my job, the people are great, the work is challenging...."

I find this a lot more important than money, as long as I can live comfortably and enjoy my job than that is all that matters, really. Look at what $XXXX will buy you, a bigger house? Faster Car? Does that really compare to the fun you have at work?

Money ain't everything and will never buy you happiness but it can certainly buy a lot of things that can bring happiness!!

Whatever, you decide good luck,

Iain
 
Hey... as much as I love my Job...

I also have to think... I have a wife and want to start a family. Right now my pay is $2,000 away from the poverty line...

I am not saying I want to be rich and drive a new car. I am saying I want to be able to keep my house and be able to afford a minivan when I have kids.


Casper

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
~Frank Sinatra
 
I would probably find a new job if I was you. But until you find one, try to get the 15%.
 
Your manager probably has to work within a budget. She's probably limited to the amount she can increase that budget via pay raises. If you are happy with 15% with the chance of another 15% next year then stay. You could look at them not giving you a raise you wanted before as they "held me hostage with abysmal pay" or you could look at it from the big picture that they may have retained you and others like you instead of making you redundant. If your manager didn't know how much you made I'd be a bit worried. A good manager would know those under them, their ability and their costs. There are many "Ifs" that that you could go through but that does no good. All you can do is state your arguement, see what they come back with and decide if that is acceptible. If you stay keep vocal and seen. Make sure your hard work is recognised and compinasated in the long term.

If you leave 1 of 3 things will probably happen. 1) they won't hire anyone to replace you and others will pick up your work or 2) they will hire someone for your salary 3) they'll hire someone for the actual market value for your services. You have to concider what you think about a company that would do those 3 things and what your spin on it is.



Hope I've been helpful,
Wayne Francis

If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first
 
It sounds to me like you have job grade levels at your current employer. Why not have a one on one meeting with your supervisor and see if she can't have your level raised instead of your income raised. This would eliminate the raise aspect and she would have a good argument to senior staff. IE: Casper has worked here x years and he has been in the same grade level, these are his attributes to the company and I feel a job increase is in order for him. When I approached my boss I brought in a list of the improvements and or successful things I had done in the past years and compared them to the grade level I was when I started, in other words look at all I have done since I was a job grade xx. I never raised any personel info or name dropping in my meeting, just my job performance and the facts and since your supervisor is new she may not know all of your achievements etc. put em in writing and let her have a copy!

Even if I get nowhere with my meeting I feel great knowing that I tried and gave it my all and I will now know where I stand with my present company. If you do not get a job increase the writing is on the wall, when will you? Put a time limit you feel comfortable with on waiting for your increase/answer then get the resume out.
 
THat is what is happening... With a Job grade level increase They are getting around the 10% limit. Oh but good news it is looking like 20% now. I can only keep my fingers crossed. But in the mean time I will keep my eyes open as well

Casper

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."
~Frank Sinatra
 
Do you believe your current employer will appreciate if you stay with the company because you feel it is your responsibility?
I don’t!

It seems to me they know your situation as well as their needs. It is not your fault if they decide to keep playing their corporate game and force you to look for new options.

What to do?
Well…, first you must find another job with better pay. And you have to negotiate it right; remember you still have a job you like and there will probably be a raise just around the corner. So, go for a good one which represent at least 20 to 40 % increase in salary.
And second, with the new job secured, go to your current employer and negotiate, with a real decision-maker, the raise you want. Show him/her your value and professionalism doing it the right way. But be prepared to walk away if no satisfactory middle ground is found (that’s the only way to be respected and keep the bridges in good shape).

In case you have to leave your current job (to a better paid one) offer them to work as Freelancer (1099 or Corp. to Corp.). You can give them the service they need for a price they can afford (remember you cost your employer much more than the salary you receive).

Regards,

Jose.-


_________________
Pablo Mir
pm@pablomir.com
NJ, (973) 699-2043
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Part and Inventory Search

Sponsor

Back
Top