Boy I really am at a bummer of a crossroads right now by the looks of it. I graduated with an A.A.S. degree in computer science about a year ago because I really wasnt financially able as well as having the time because of needing to work fulltime while attending school. I am working IT for a smaller company 80+ people and I really enjoy every day I go to work but it seems to me that if I was to ever want to join up with a larger company, even if I do have my MCSA I will be looked over for someone with a bachelors. Is this really the case and if its not, is my pay really going to take a hit (typically)? Like I said I cant realistically enter a 4 yr program and I am worried about the outcome in the long run. Thanks!
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Is an A.A.S. really a bad thing to have
- Thread starter Cstorms
- Start date
A couple of questions/ideas…
What is the reason for moving to a larger company? I’m not questioning it but you indicate that you like what you do now – is there a reason the large company appeals to you?
Smaller companies – 40-200 employees, afford you greater autonomy and allow for you to assume a much broader and, if done right, more strategic role. You get to work directly with company ownership and management. Additionally, pay is far less rigid – less controlled by policy than by value.
I focus my time and energy on the smaller companies and make a very good living doing so.
With all that said, don’t be duped by the “must have a bachelors” mantra. You can pick up your four year degree later if that is what is critical to you. More important, are you involved in the local professional community – giving time and effort to philanthropic causes – meeting people, etc. With proper networking, you will be pulled into a company if you have the experience – the value.
In 22 years I have never looked at a want ad or an online job board. I’ve always met people who asked me specifically to get them a resume – or to call them and setup a time to meet at their office. HR is always an afterthought. The deal was always completed before I filled out a job application.
Take a look at the graphic in this blog entry from last year. It shows the diametrically different approach directions that employers look for talent versus job seekers looking for opportunity...
If you wish to work for a large company, it won’t be your lack of bachelors degree that stops you. Well, not if you seek opportunity properly.
I hope this is helpful.
Matthew Moran (career blog and podcast below)
Career Advice with Attitude for the IT Pro
What is the reason for moving to a larger company? I’m not questioning it but you indicate that you like what you do now – is there a reason the large company appeals to you?
Smaller companies – 40-200 employees, afford you greater autonomy and allow for you to assume a much broader and, if done right, more strategic role. You get to work directly with company ownership and management. Additionally, pay is far less rigid – less controlled by policy than by value.
I focus my time and energy on the smaller companies and make a very good living doing so.
With all that said, don’t be duped by the “must have a bachelors” mantra. You can pick up your four year degree later if that is what is critical to you. More important, are you involved in the local professional community – giving time and effort to philanthropic causes – meeting people, etc. With proper networking, you will be pulled into a company if you have the experience – the value.
In 22 years I have never looked at a want ad or an online job board. I’ve always met people who asked me specifically to get them a resume – or to call them and setup a time to meet at their office. HR is always an afterthought. The deal was always completed before I filled out a job application.
Take a look at the graphic in this blog entry from last year. It shows the diametrically different approach directions that employers look for talent versus job seekers looking for opportunity...
If you wish to work for a large company, it won’t be your lack of bachelors degree that stops you. Well, not if you seek opportunity properly.
I hope this is helpful.
Matthew Moran (career blog and podcast below)
Career Advice with Attitude for the IT Pro
LadySlinger
IS-IT--Management
I would look at a Bachelors only if you want to make a career change. It is something nice to have BUT if you have the experience, the background, etc, you won't be passed over.
Once you get into a company, then if you still want a Bachelor's then begin looking into getting one. Most companies LOVE IT when their employees decide to further their educations. Often times the employee will be rewarded in the end.
Once you get into a company, then if you still want a Bachelor's then begin looking into getting one. Most companies LOVE IT when their employees decide to further their educations. Often times the employee will be rewarded in the end.
- Moderator
- #5
I can't agree with that statement.
I have 20+ years of computer experience, and over half of that timeframe in the medical industry. The other half in business and manufacturing.
But when I applied at a hospital in Duluth, all I got was a "Dear Applicant" letter. Because I didn't have a B.S. Even though I had experience, and more importantly, experience *specific* to their industry.
However, a kid that I know who was working on *getting* his B.S., got hired there. (Not the same position, granted... but I didn't even get a phone call!)
I know. For a fact. Beyond a doubt. That I could have filled a half-dozen of their posted positions at that hospital. My resume got circle-filed before it even saw the bright glow of an IT person's flourescent lights.
Just my 2¢
"In order to start solving a problem, one must first identify its owner." --Me
--Greg
I've been passed over for some job opportunities because of my lack of a degree. However, more and more companies accept work experience as a substitute. In the past year (with a lot of job hunting), I have been told that it was an issue less than 5 times.
- Thread starter
- #7
Well thank you for the replies, I also have been noticing replacing the "must have BS" to "must have BS or related experience". I do however think that hiring managers that are in a non technical position will probably be more apt to pass me by, but in general if the hiring manager cant respect your experience in the past I wonder how good of an experience you will have in the future. Or maybe I am just trying to look on the bright side 
Anytime HR evaluates technical resumes, it's pretty random as to how they will determine you are qualified. I remember one company where the HR person told me I wasn't qualified for the position I applied for (which I was actually extremely qualified for with over 20 years of pertinent experience but not the right job title) but she wanted to phone interview me for another postion she thought I was well qualified for as a programmer. I ended the interview when she couldn't tell me what language(s) they programmed in and said, "Is that important?"
I also had to rescue the resume of the guy we actually hired away from HR one time becasue she though thought he wasn't qualified. Since we interviewed (or read the resumes of but declined to interview) all the people she thought were qualified and none were, I was able to see the resumes she had screened out.
I never worry about what they say are the qualifications when I apply for a job if I think it is a job I can do because usually the qualifications are the want to haves and they will look at other people if no one has all the things they asked for (which often happens).
Make sure your resume has the key words in it that HR will want to see as much as possible and then makes ure it also is written so that it has enough detail about what you accually accomplished as to impress the techical manager when he or she sees it.
As someone says, if you can make comtact with the technical manager before the resume goes to HR, you are better off because if that person is interested in you, then HR will be told not to screen you out. This is especially true if you don't have the exact qualifications they are looking for.
Questions about posting. See faq183-874
I also had to rescue the resume of the guy we actually hired away from HR one time becasue she though thought he wasn't qualified. Since we interviewed (or read the resumes of but declined to interview) all the people she thought were qualified and none were, I was able to see the resumes she had screened out.
I never worry about what they say are the qualifications when I apply for a job if I think it is a job I can do because usually the qualifications are the want to haves and they will look at other people if no one has all the things they asked for (which often happens).
Make sure your resume has the key words in it that HR will want to see as much as possible and then makes ure it also is written so that it has enough detail about what you accually accomplished as to impress the techical manager when he or she sees it.
As someone says, if you can make comtact with the technical manager before the resume goes to HR, you are better off because if that person is interested in you, then HR will be told not to screen you out. This is especially true if you don't have the exact qualifications they are looking for.
Questions about posting. See faq183-874
As far as your original question, "Is an A.A.S. really a bad thing to have", no of course it isn't. There is no such thing as bad knowledge, and I am sure you learned a lot in your pursuit of an associate's degree.
Any place that will only hire you based on a degree is not a place you want to work anyway. It helps when you have little experience, because it shows that you are able to learn, but I'm not sure how valuable it really is. I know that my degree in economics is not exactly doing what I thought it would for me...
The main problem I think is that most HR departments don't understand technical know-how or accomplishment (and they don't think to really dig in and ask the technical people). They tend to only understand things that end with B.A., M.A., etc... And don't forget B.S. (probably the most appropriate ;-))
If you want to go back to school, do it because you want to not because you feel that you have to. You could even try to transfer credits from your AAS, and take classes part time (possibly on your company's dollar?)
Good Luck,
Alex
Professor: But what about your superintelligence?
Gunther: When I had that there was too much pressure to use it. All I want out of life is to be a monkey of moderate intelligence who wears a suit. That's why I've decided to transfer to Business School.
Professor: NOOOOOOOOOOOO.
Any place that will only hire you based on a degree is not a place you want to work anyway. It helps when you have little experience, because it shows that you are able to learn, but I'm not sure how valuable it really is. I know that my degree in economics is not exactly doing what I thought it would for me...
The main problem I think is that most HR departments don't understand technical know-how or accomplishment (and they don't think to really dig in and ask the technical people). They tend to only understand things that end with B.A., M.A., etc... And don't forget B.S. (probably the most appropriate ;-))
If you want to go back to school, do it because you want to not because you feel that you have to. You could even try to transfer credits from your AAS, and take classes part time (possibly on your company's dollar?)
Good Luck,
Alex
Professor: But what about your superintelligence?
Gunther: When I had that there was too much pressure to use it. All I want out of life is to be a monkey of moderate intelligence who wears a suit. That's why I've decided to transfer to Business School.
Professor: NOOOOOOOOOOOO.
JCreamerII
MIS
Cstorms,
Like Alex said it's not a bad thing. The issue comes down to this, there may be a job with a company that you really want, but you'll never get to a interview because you don't have a BS begree. I'm in the same spot no BS but I got an AS in CS. It's too late for me to go for the BS at my age but ( I have a feeling your about 30 years younger ) you can get it at your convenience going forward. Once you get in with a company it may not matter at all. But if you can take your classes, and get them paid for all or partly by your employer, it's no big deal to get there from where you are now. In the years to come I think it will matter even more to have a BS. Your glass is half full mine is half empty.
Jim C.
Like Alex said it's not a bad thing. The issue comes down to this, there may be a job with a company that you really want, but you'll never get to a interview because you don't have a BS begree. I'm in the same spot no BS but I got an AS in CS. It's too late for me to go for the BS at my age but ( I have a feeling your about 30 years younger ) you can get it at your convenience going forward. Once you get in with a company it may not matter at all. But if you can take your classes, and get them paid for all or partly by your employer, it's no big deal to get there from where you are now. In the years to come I think it will matter even more to have a BS. Your glass is half full mine is half empty.
Jim C.
The way to get a job is not to go through the HR department. They're tasked with filtering out resumes, and since they're very inexpert at it, they end up throwing the wheat out with the chaff.
You're best bet is knowing someone who already works there, and use social networking to get your resume in front of the hiring manager.
Chip H.
____________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please read FAQ222-2244 first
You're best bet is knowing someone who already works there, and use social networking to get your resume in front of the hiring manager.
Chip H.
____________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please read FAQ222-2244 first
A B.S. and A.A.S have different goals and they are not equivalent.
![[bigsmile]](/data/assets/smilies/bigsmile.gif "[bigsmile] [bigsmile]")
I expect, in 5-15 years there will be ample opportunity for those who invest in their education and become highly-skilled employees. My belief is the hiring AND pay will be greater than Y2K; but only for those who are qualified. Whereas during the boom of the 90s anyone with a pulse could get an IT job; but post-baby boomer hiring will be educated people (not just those breathing).
Guess a University or college isn't going to be your employer anytime soon?
So true. With the baby boomers on the verge of retirement the professional and high-skilled positions they currently have will need to be filled. Of course they are going to be filled by the educated, highly-skilled, professional, technical people, but there will be more demand than supply.
I expect, in 5-15 years there will be ample opportunity for those who invest in their education and become highly-skilled employees. My belief is the hiring AND pay will be greater than Y2K; but only for those who are qualified. Whereas during the boom of the 90s anyone with a pulse could get an IT job; but post-baby boomer hiring will be educated people (not just those breathing).
Bummer!
I hadn't looked at the post in nearly 12 months and the URL is built by the title of the post.
One of the challenges of blogging is that I do it - mostly on the fly. That means I often fail to proofread, might be writing it in a text box or notepad without a spell checker, and typically instead or in addition to other writing or consulting I might be doing.
If you read enough of my post - even here - I include the disclaimer: spelling, grammar, and usage are all subject...
At least the URL works. ;-)
Thanks.
Matthew Moran (career blog and podcast below)
Career Advice with Attitude for the IT Pro
I hadn't looked at the post in nearly 12 months and the URL is built by the title of the post.
One of the challenges of blogging is that I do it - mostly on the fly. That means I often fail to proofread, might be writing it in a text box or notepad without a spell checker, and typically instead or in addition to other writing or consulting I might be doing.
If you read enough of my post - even here - I include the disclaimer: spelling, grammar, and usage are all subject...
At least the URL works. ;-)
Thanks.
Matthew Moran (career blog and podcast below)
Career Advice with Attitude for the IT Pro
kHz - I actually would like to 'semi retire' at some point and teach at a community college. I'm sure my econ knowledge will be so rusty by then that this will be impossible. I'm considering going for a master's in Computer Science, if I can pull that off I suppose I could teach a programming course down the road. I worry that I would have to take a lot of classes on Networking, etc for that degree though, when I really want to focus on programming and software development.
Anyone know if this would be the case? (Looking straight at Matthew and kHz)
Thanks,
Alex
Professor: But what about your superintelligence?
Gunther: When I had that there was too much pressure to use it. All I want out of life is to be a monkey of moderate intelligence who wears a suit. That's why I've decided to transfer to Business School.
Professor: NOOOOOOOOOOOO.
Anyone know if this would be the case? (Looking straight at Matthew and kHz)
Thanks,
Alex
Professor: But what about your superintelligence?
Gunther: When I had that there was too much pressure to use it. All I want out of life is to be a monkey of moderate intelligence who wears a suit. That's why I've decided to transfer to Business School.
Professor: NOOOOOOOOOOOO.
I've been speaking to instructors - specifically at colleges for the past few years. One thing I've found is that many an instructor - particular at a community college - have degrees in disciplines unrelated to the courses taught. But in many cases, they work in the field - bringing some real value to their students.
If you are currently degreed - even in econ (older), you can probably teach. You should speak to a local community college about becoming an adjunct for a course or two.
They can probably direct you more clearly than I can.
========================
FYI: New videos live on my video podcast site:
========================
Matthew Moran (career blog and podcast below)
Career Advice with Attitude for the IT Pro
If you are currently degreed - even in econ (older), you can probably teach. You should speak to a local community college about becoming an adjunct for a course or two.
They can probably direct you more clearly than I can.
========================
FYI: New videos live on my video podcast site:
========================
Matthew Moran (career blog and podcast below)
Career Advice with Attitude for the IT Pro
- Moderator
- #17
I *LOVED* teaching at the community college.
I was teaching Intro to Computers, Intro to Internet, and even "Advanced DOS and Hard Drive Management".
The coolest part is, as long as I was teaching a minimum of 10 credits per quarter, I was put on their "Steps and Columns" pay scale... it worked out to about $62 an hour. I was in heaven.
Then, the college decided that "All instructors must be at a master's level or above". So, even though I had nothing but positive reviews, even though I was teaching upwards of 15 creds per quarter, out the door I went.
Bummer.
Best job I ever had.
Just my 2¢
"In order to start solving a problem, one must first identify its owner." --Me
--Greg
I was teaching Intro to Computers, Intro to Internet, and even "Advanced DOS and Hard Drive Management".
The coolest part is, as long as I was teaching a minimum of 10 credits per quarter, I was put on their "Steps and Columns" pay scale... it worked out to about $62 an hour. I was in heaven.
Then, the college decided that "All instructors must be at a master's level or above". So, even though I had nothing but positive reviews, even though I was teaching upwards of 15 creds per quarter, out the door I went.
Bummer.
Best job I ever had.
Just my 2¢
"In order to start solving a problem, one must first identify its owner." --Me
--Greg
Matthew-
Sorry for not being more clear about my question. I already have done some research on community colleges. What I was wondering is if there is any type of masters' degree out there in computer science that does not include networking courses and the like. I have not found one yet.
Greg-
You have been burned by the degree issue a few times, huh? That's the worst. At least you can teach punks like me a thing or two!
That is why I want to pursue a masters' in comp sci, I am afraid that I will hit a ceiling at some point without some kind of formal education (in the field).
Alex
Professor: But what about your superintelligence?
Gunther: When I had that there was too much pressure to use it. All I want out of life is to be a monkey of moderate intelligence who wears a suit. That's why I've decided to transfer to Business School.
Professor: NOOOOOOOOOOOO.
Sorry for not being more clear about my question. I already have done some research on community colleges. What I was wondering is if there is any type of masters' degree out there in computer science that does not include networking courses and the like. I have not found one yet.
Greg-
You have been burned by the degree issue a few times, huh? That's the worst. At least you can teach punks like me a thing or two!
That is why I want to pursue a masters' in comp sci, I am afraid that I will hit a ceiling at some point without some kind of formal education (in the field).
Alex
Professor: But what about your superintelligence?
Gunther: When I had that there was too much pressure to use it. All I want out of life is to be a monkey of moderate intelligence who wears a suit. That's why I've decided to transfer to Business School.
Professor: NOOOOOOOOOOOO.
- Moderator
- #19
AlexCuse:
Pursue it. And if you can, find out what it takes to get your teaching cert as well (you'll need a methods course, etc.)
The best IT degrees seem to be the ones that are paired with something else... such as an IT major with a business minor, or a teaching minor, stuff like that.
I *WISH* I could go back to school. The reality of it is, I'm so flippin' busy doing consulting, etc. to "make a buck", that I don't have time to go back to school. It's a circle.
Get your degree... as high as you can... while you can.
And this goes for ANYBODY... once you get out of school (saying "Oh, I'm going to work for a year or two, I'm tired of school... then finish my degree...") you never do. You get out of "study" mode. Then, if you *DO* actually go back (which is most likely MANY years later), you have to work harder to get back into the groove.
Let the momentum of education take you as far as you can possibly afford.
And if Mom and Dad are paying for it, go for doctorate!
Just my 2¢
"In order to start solving a problem, one must first identify its owner." --Me
--Greg
Pursue it. And if you can, find out what it takes to get your teaching cert as well (you'll need a methods course, etc.)
The best IT degrees seem to be the ones that are paired with something else... such as an IT major with a business minor, or a teaching minor, stuff like that.
I *WISH* I could go back to school. The reality of it is, I'm so flippin' busy doing consulting, etc. to "make a buck", that I don't have time to go back to school. It's a circle.
Get your degree... as high as you can... while you can.
And this goes for ANYBODY... once you get out of school (saying "Oh, I'm going to work for a year or two, I'm tired of school... then finish my degree...") you never do. You get out of "study" mode. Then, if you *DO* actually go back (which is most likely MANY years later), you have to work harder to get back into the groove.
Let the momentum of education take you as far as you can possibly afford.
And if Mom and Dad are paying for it, go for doctorate!
Just my 2¢
"In order to start solving a problem, one must first identify its owner." --Me
--Greg
LadySlinger
IS-IT--Management
Hmm.. For once i took the side of "experience over degree" and got contradictory statements (personally I do try to promote degrees, but just thought I would sit in another seat for once).
Anyhoo, the Community College thing...yes, go get your Masters (they'll pay better and make you a perminant employee). I was teaching a course (Intro to Web Design and Systems) over the summer, and don't worry about needing to fully know the material. The CC I taught well, they're known for the hazing of first semester teachers: "You've worked with the subject before? OK, well come up with a syllabus and 15 week course plan, here are the books and you class begins tonight". Not the best of action, but heck, I learned a lot of things I'm allowed to do and not do.
Anyhoo, the Community College thing...yes, go get your Masters (they'll pay better and make you a perminant employee). I was teaching a course (Intro to Web Design and Systems) over the summer, and don't worry about needing to fully know the material. The CC I taught well, they're known for the hazing of first semester teachers: "You've worked with the subject before? OK, well come up with a syllabus and 15 week course plan, here are the books and you class begins tonight". Not the best of action, but heck, I learned a lot of things I'm allowed to do and not do.
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