Is 6 wire E&M trunk possible and how 1

[joonaskynstler]

Hi

I have connected together two 11C s Rel 4.0 with E&M lines.
When EMTY is TY2 (wich means 8 wire connection) I can call from one pbx to the other. When I change EMTY to TY1 and do cabling for 6 wire connection I cant call from one pbx to the other. PBX ses are on the same table and connected with usual copper wires( 2m long, for testing).

Is it possible to connect two meridians together with 6 wires. 2 for TX, 2 for RX, 1 for M and 1 for E. If it is how shoulkd i connect the E and M wires? Itried both ways, dont work. Pbx picks the channel and sends the number but nothing else happens. When I change cabling back to 8 wires and EMTY to TY 2 I can call again.

E&M card is NT5K72AA

Please help !!!

Joonas

DES
TN 002 0 00 03
TYPE TIE
CUST 0
XTRK XFEM
EMTY TY2
CPAD COUT
TRK ANLG
NCOS 7
RTMB 3 1
TGAR 1
SIGL EM4
STRI/STRO DDL DDL
SUPN NO
AST NO
IAPG 0
CLS CTD DTN ECD WTA LPR APN THFD XREP SPCD
P10 NTC
TKID
AACR NO
DATE 12 DEC 2005

 

[joonaskynstler]

If I get this 6 wire trunk working I need to connect it to the DCX 600 wich is made in Norway PBX.

DCX 600 uses 6 wire trunks so I need to get my 6 wire trunk running.

If somebody has connected E&M lines to the DCX can share his knowledge.

 

[johnpoole]

white blue white orange
blue white orange white

white orange white blue
orange white blue white

white green green white
green white white green

your trnasmit pair is my rec pair, your e lead is my m lead

john poole
bellsouth business
columbia,sc

 

[joonaskynstler]

to johnpool
I connected wires like that.

Then when I call out from pbx it locks the line. I think it locks the line even without calling.

when you connect E to E and M to M it doesnt block but when you call it takes trunk sends the number but other side doesnt answer.

And the ty1 is right type for 6 wire connection?

 

[johnpoole]

on the only 4 wire (3 pair) e and m, i have left working the 1st pair is the transmit pair, the second is rec pair, the third is e and m.. it has been a while since i used one and don't see a reason for one anymore... but i did check the frame before i posted... not saying other wireing schemes will not work, mine works with what ever the switch settings are on that card.. these were real common before tie was an option and we used them a lot for cot's back in the mechnical days

john poole
bellsouth business
columbia,sc

 

[joonaskynstler]

I 'am going crazy with this thing

Configuration that works is

A B

RA TA
RB TB
TA RA
TB RB
E1 M1
E2 M2
M1 E1
M2 E1

From supplement to the 553-3011-210 page 25.

But with

RA TA
RB TB
TA RA
TB RB
E M
M E

Doesnt work.
My E&M card doesn't have jumpers on it. (NT5K72AA)

Last connection (6 wire) is programmed
DES MUTUNDWE
TN 002 0 00 03
TYPE TIE
CUST 0
XTRK XFEM
EMTY TY1
CPAD COUT
TRK ANLG
NCOS 7
RTMB 3 1
TGAR 1
SIGL EM4
STRI/STRO IMM IMM
SUPN YES
AST NO
IAPG 0
CLS UNR DTN ECD WTA LPR APN THFD XREP SPCD
P10 NTC MID
TKID
AACR NO
DATE 12 DEC 2005

Can you monitor E&M trunk somehow to find out what is going on? I have used ld 36 and stat card.

The other PBX (DCX 600) gave error no loop current. What that might mean. Is there some good webpage about E&M?

What signalling protocol is used on the trunk printout above?

The DCX 600 uses MFC signaling protocol 1. What a hell is MFC signaling? Other options are dtmf and decadic?

Cant understad this e&m!!!

 

[strmwalker]

joonaskynstler...MFC SIGNALING MEANS MULTIFREQUENCY
COMPELLED.should work with trunks on a pbx with what
i know as dtmf signaling.

 

[joonaskynstler]

To strmwalker

I really didnt get you. How I should connect the wires.

By the way can I even use 6 wires to directly connect two pbx ses together? ( using copper pairs)

Manual gives the picture where one side is 11C other side is channel equipment. What is channel equipment?

 

[strmwalker]

joonaskynstler..how far are the pbx's from each other
and do they have copper between the two sites.meaning
they do not go thru a local phone company's central office.
if the cable is going from from one pbx to the other by copper yes you can use 6 wire ties without channel equipment if it goes thru a central office you will have to use channeled euipment.

 

[kprintz]

Yes, it is possible to connect two Meridians using 6 wire E&M (TY1) tie lines. I have numerous circuits configured in my network using this scheme. Wire them as John indicated in his post. You said both option 11 systems are on a table next to each other. Are both systems grounded? 4 wire E&M (6 wires) requires good grounding. You need not worry about channel equipment if systems are sitting side by side.

 

[strmwalker]

joonaskynstler. channel equipment would be a channel bank
used with 2 or 4 wire e&m cards you would cable it to the
mdf to cross connect the pbx to.johnpoole crossconnect would be the one to use if copper is point to point with
no central office in play.if central office is in the picture you cross connect straight because some not all
central offices will do the crossover for you you would need to ask them if it is straight or crossed.kprintz gave
the best info so far the pbx's have to be grounded very very important to make them work properly.

 

[johnpoole]

i've had them work 4000 cable feet apart without any line treatment. past that you'll see loss of vol as you 1st indicator.. quick ? why are you going e and m? back to back two way did wink start does the same thing.. wink start is great for supervision

john poole
bellsouth business
columbia,sc

 

[joonaskynstler]

Tried to do like you said. I grounded both pbx ses together and made connections like
PBX1 PBX2
RA TA
RB TB
TA RA
TB RB
E M
M E

When I connect E&M wires one side is going to lock up

00 = UNIT 00 = LCKO (TRK)(TIE EM4W IMM /IMM )

When I disable it and enable it the other side locks up.
PBX 1
DES MUTUNDWE
TN 002 0 00 03
TYPE TIE
CUST 0
XTRK XFEM
EMTY TY1
CPAD COUT
TRK ANLG
NCOS 7
RTMB 3 1
TGAR 1
SIGL EM4
STRI/STRO IMM IMM
SUPN YES
AST NO
IAPG 0
CLS UNR DTN ECD WTA LPR APN THFD XREP SPCD
P10 NTC MID
TKID
AACR NO
DATE 13 DEC 2005

PBX2
DES EM4
TN 001 0 00 00
TYPE TIE
CUST 0
XTRK XFEM
EMTY TY1
CPAD COUT
TRK ANLG
NCOS 7
RTMB 1 1
TGAR 1
SIGL EM4
STRI/STRO IMM IMM
SUPN YES
AST NO
IAPG 0
CLS UNR DTN ECD WTA LPR APN THFD XREP SPCD
P10 NTC MID
TKID
AACR NO
DATE 13 DEC 2005

REQ: prt

TYPE: rdb

CUST


CUST 00

TYPE RDB
CUST 00
DMOD
ROUT 1
DES TIE
TKTP TIE
NPID_TBL_NUM 0
ESN NO
RPA NO
CNVT NO
SAT NO

RCLS EXT
VTRK NO
NODE
DTRK NO
PTYP ATT
AUTO NO
DNIS NO
ICOG IAO
SRCH LIN
TRMB YES
STEP
ACOD 8501
TARG 01
CLEN 1
BILN NO
OABS
INST
IDC NO
DCNO 0 *
NDNO 0
DEXT NO
SIGO STD
STYP SDAT
MFC NO
TIMR ICF 512
OGF 512
EOD 13952
DSI 34944
NRD 10112
DDL 70
ODT 4096
RGV 640
GTO 896
GTI 896
SFB 3
TFD 0
EESD 1024
SST 5 0
DTD NO
SCDT NO
2 DT NO
NEDC ETH
FEDC ETH
CPDC NO
DLTN YES
HOLD 02 02 40
SEIZ 02 02
SVFL 02 02
DRNG NO
CDR NO
NATL YES
SSL


PAGE 002

CFWR NO
IDOP NO
MUS NO
PANS YES
MANO NO
FRL 0 0
FRL 1 0
FRL 2 0
FRL 3 0
FRL 4 0
FRL 5 0
FRL 6 0
FRL 7 0
TTBL 0
ATAN NO
OHTD NO
PLEV 2
OPR NO
ALRM NO
ART 0
PECL NO
DCTI 0
ATRR NO
TRRL NO
SGRP 0
AACR NO

What is wrong? I dont get it. When I cahange EMTY back to ty2 and do cabling
A B

RA TA
RB TB
TA RA
TB RB
E1 M1
E2 M2
M1 E1
M2 E1

then it works.
Can somebody help please!!!
Joonas

 

[strmwalker]

joonaskynstler...one thing you can try is to change your
cls:unr to ctd because ctd is the default for trunk types:
tie,csa,atvn,fgd,and ida.i am still looking for other
ways to help you make this thing work.

strmwalker

 

[strmwalker]

joonaskynstler..lets look at your cabling on the e&m leads
make sure they are not reversed before you punch down the
e to m and m to e it sounds as if they are already reversed
because you say as soon as you connect them they go into
lockout.and have you tried using stri:wnk and stro:wnk?

 

[strmwalker]

joonaskynstler..this could be the problem hope not but here it goes:GERMAN implementation of type 1 signaling does not
allow back to back operation on NT5K72AA E&M CARD.WITH THAT
IT WOULD MEAN YOU WOULD HAVE TO USE A CHANNEL BANK OR
CHANNEL EQUIPMENT.depending on what part of the world you are at.
let me know.
strmwalker

 

[strmwalker]

joonaskynstler..have not heard back from you are you working on issue.

strmwalker

 

[joonaskynstler]

I got two meridians working together with six pairs that way

I used TY2

A B

RA ---- TA
RB ---- TB
TA ---- RA
TB ---- RB
E1 ---- M1
E2-GND A site M2-GND B Site
M1 ---- E1
M2-GND A site E1-GND B site

It works and it has six wires.

When A calls to B, A sends ground to B E lead, then sends the number with DTMF codes on A transmit pair. Then subscriber rings on the B site and when B picks up the phone B sends ground to the A site E wire. During the call both sites send ground to each other. This means E on A site is 0 V and E on B site is also 0 V. When A disconnects it stops sending the ground to the B sites E wire so the other site knows that the call is over.

M1 and M2 are really a relay output wires on ty2 tipe connection.

Problem is that this other pbx the norway miracle DCX 600 acts little bit different.

When I call from meridian (using 6 wire ty2, look above) and give ground to DCX E lead DCX immidiatly gives ground to meridian E lead. DCX doesnt wait for the number and sends ground immideatly instead of waiting when somebody picks up from DCX. So meridian still sends the number over Tx and waits. After some time DCX releases its ground.
Those sent dtmf number are indicated on dcx card lights as invalid codes.

DCX has some kind of MFC signaling and some kind of tone sending. Can somebody say what is SIGL EM4 and can I change it to something else for 4 wire audio E&M?
Can somebody tell me is there a other way to send the dialed number than sending it whit dtmf of pulse dialing?
I have tried STRI/STRO IMM IMM ,STRI/STRO WNK WNK ,STRI/STRO DDL DDL. The number sending is always the same only wnk waits for the wink of ground from the other pbx and delayd type also acts like this wink start dial supervision.

I'am pretty stuck here. I was sent to the Africa, Uganda to solve this problem but I cant. The DCX 600 is a total mistery for me.

What about this signaling unit side and trunk circuit side?

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/gatecont/ps2250/products_tech_note09186a008009452e.shtml#ts_i

Can I cofigure my card to be one of them?

Thanks to you all for help and advice! Still in trouble though

 

[strmwalker]

joonaskynstler..there is a pkg from nortel you have to have
in your nortel switch in order to make it work with mfc signaling i am looking for that package number in the
the nortel documentation.i will let you know as soon as i
find it again.
strmwalker

 

[strmwalker]

joonaskynstler... try changing clsut vnl,and cna in your class.you should have commonwealth of independent states
[CIST]package 221 or multifrequency compelled signaling
[MFC]package 128.in your nortel switch.

can you tell me where i can find documentation on the
DCX 600 PHONE SYSTEM OR WHO MAKES IT.

STRMWALKER