IPOFFICE 500 to TDM switch 1

[tnlcom]

Hi all,

I am being asked to install an IP Office 500 into a conference centre that is linked currently with four piggy backed analogue trunks from a Seimens ISDX switch (TDM). The TDM currently offers DPNSS and QSIG to various parts of the site so I am thinking I can set up a Westell 2030CS gateway on the TDM switch with the existing numbers pointing at it and use the 10mb LES 10 circuit the Conference centre has to connect using H323 to the IP Office? The Les 10 currently links both site for data.

Anyone got any idea what issues i am likely to have or have you got a better idea!!

Currently this is set up on university campus who do not yet want to upgrade the TDM's although this will come.

But for now they are getting pressure from some remote campus sites that have fibre links to them underutilised that could resolve the problem for now.

 

[aarenot]

Issues you are likley to have involve knowledge of several items. You would need a subject matter expert for:

1) Seimens ISDX switch (TDM)
2) DPNSS
3) QSIG
4) Westell 2030CS gateway
5) 10mb LES 10 circuit
6) H323
7) IP Office
8) data
9) fibre links
10) integration of all of these in a cross manufacturer
multiple link environemnt, as well as full support of their data network proffessionals.

This is not just installing an IPO, but integration of multiple components, across multiple links, using multiple protocols expecting them to communicate, and integrate for full functionality. Consider that each of the above mentioned items will take time, research, tweaking, troubleshooting, techinical support, and possibly outside consultants to make this work at all, let alone fully integrate. That is asumming that you do have experience with all these individual components, but just not integrating them all together.

Try setting up an IPO at the PBX, then for other locations SCN other IPO units together. You can use analog trunks piggy backed off the PBX for the PBX location IPO unit. This may keep it more simple.

 

[mattKnight]

I think aarenot has nailed most of the points (star from me).

To underline a couple of bits - The IP office doesn't support DPNSS. QSIG is the way to go if you are going to use an ISDN based protocol.

I don't know how effective E&M (analogue trunks) signalling on an IPO would be... let me know how you get on!

I'd also research the numbering plan in quite some detail, if you don't you will certainly run into issues!

Take Care

Matt
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.

 

[aarenot]

It appears the gateway could use DPNSS to communicate with the ISDX(not a ISDX subject matter expert), but then would not use DPNSS to communicate with any other unit in the component mix.

Piggy backing analog extensions onto another PBX as trunks is never less than cumbersome, but this is an approach of cost effectiveness not best procatices, as stated by the unwillingness to get rid of the TDM switches.

 

[ProviderReborn]

I think aarenot has nailed most of the points (star from me).

To underline a couple of bits - The IP office doesn't support DPNSS. QSIG is the way to go if you are going to use an ISDN based protocol.

You can however convert from QSIG into DPNSS via a westell gateway so dont let that stop any ideas you may have.

ACA - IP Office Implement
ACA - IP Telephony
ACS - IP Office Implement
CCNA - Working towards.

 

[aarenot]

TP,
I agree, and was saying that in not so simple a way in my last post about how DPNSS would be just one segment of the communication link. That said, the IPO portion of the implementation is the smaller part.

 

[ProviderReborn]

Sites like this can be great fun. Its usually sites like this you seem to know every one by fist name terms because you go there so much.

I and a couple of my collegues have been consulting for another company who look after the IT for a housing society.
One of the systems they have we are partners for but hate, as it offers so much but does not actually work. (Also has alot to do with Index/Alchemy past employees)

The main core of the system is a windows 2000 Server with voiceports on it, this in no uncertain terms is the biggest pile of (Text Emitted) I have ever come accross, it takes 3 hours to reboot for goodness sake, this then links into the above said system Via a DPNSS link which offers a link between them and sit on a call server on this site, then remote sites have phone modules as they do not have any trunks.

Every single day & I mean every single day we are rebooting at least one aspect of this system to get a certain part to work.

In short never walk into something like this without an action plan. It just so happened we managed to get on really well with our client and are actually swapping the lot out from one of the biggest IP Office installs I have come accross.
Have readly available support from 3rd parties, do your research and look for sites that have similar setups and try and find out any of there issues/teething problems.

ACA - IP Office Implement
ACA - IP Telephony
ACS - IP Office Implement
CCNA - Working towards.

 

[aarenot]

While these setups may be(strike may be, replace with ARE) fun, and you develope close relationships with other tech partners, consultants, customers, users, etc.

Profit is not present in most cases unless done on a time and materials basis. So expect everything except profit on the project, unless you are duplicating another system you have set up, and it works.

 

[ProviderReborn]

Need a clapping smiley.

After all we are all here for to make money.

ACA - IP Office Implement
ACA - IP Telephony
ACS - IP Office Implement
CCNA - Working towards.

 

[mattKnight]

>The TDM currently offers DPNSS and QSIG

My point is why bother with DPNSS when the TDM supports QSIG anyway!

Take Care

Matt
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.

 

[aarenot]

We all know the first time we do something the profit/learning curve is steeper than the second, third, etc. That should not deter us, as we are certainly opening new profit centers in many cases.

The question here is just because it can be done, should it be done, and if so should I be the one to do it. If profit is a concern than the probability of a fourth project of this sort is the deciding factor to myself. Since that is the level of frequency when the potential of profit can be within reasonable reach when averaged over the four projects. Training time, learning curve, certs, etc. in my experience takes 4 projects to justify itself when requiring more than one person to be competent at your company with the new technology.

For intsance, if you were only going to do one CCC, I would not figure it was really worth the time $ to learn it. After about 4 of them it starts to be reasonably profitable to have spent the money to have multiple trained techs.

 

[tnlcom]

Well, that sparked some interest didn't it!

Yes guys I take all your points on board and I guess the reason I am asking for your views is because I am trying to gently dip my toe in the water having had several others in the past bitten off with just such sites that end up more trouble than they are worth.

This is quite a simple site in as much as at present they only have four analogue tie lines connected to a GDK100 with DDI numbers presented from the TDM switch but as usual the tie lines are troublesome and they rarely have more than two working. It is One Small satellite of many so the IP Ofice is my first option although It is being suggested to go the Enterprise solution route as well which is another avenue I am pursuing.

I intend to use the Westell router with Qsig as this seems to be the best option and I know the TDM offers DPNSS and QSIG already because that is in use for other Seimens switches in the Campus network.

As the Westell seems to convert QSIG and DPNSS to H323 or H450 I guess it's just picking the best option. its not that they don't want to change the TDM's out they just want to do it properly over a timely planned period which I concur with. They will if this works want to use the solution at many other smaller sites first prior to switching out the TDM' which I feel is back to front but I guess any task of this size is going to be a problem to project manage!

The Les 10's are installed and working and have been for some time so I just want to nick some unsued bandwidth; about half of it is unused.

This is a big site with lots of small sites linked to three big Seimens TDM's. all the data infrastructure has been upgraded already and the only thing left is to decide what replaces the TDM either IP Offices running SCN or the Avaya Enterprise solution linked in the same way as the TDM's.

I have lots to think about and I take all your points onboard, I will be setting out a full network diagram to ensure I don't jump into this without a suitable brace of lifecraft nearby!!

Your help is much appreciated and I will keep you informed on how i am getting on.

Any other thoughts on this would be great to hear about.

 

[tnlcom]

aarenot,

In answer to your specific questions, most of the knowledge you say (quite rightly) I need we have in house but no one in our industry has it all so it goes without question that we have to bridge those gaps in our knoweledge with other professionals who have that knowledge.

Technology these days is getting more and more complex and I can go back to the first Private PBX switch (further actually but let's not go there!) the minimaster system; and I have been involved in installing, maintaining and upgrading systems since that time but I have probably forgotten more programming knowledge than I care to admit!

I am now what is called a convergence engineer so I have a good understanding of what this customer needs even if he does not! however i would not profess to entertain starting a job like this without lots of research first (and also the right people to undertake the job)to make sure what I offer this customer I am confident will work.

 

[aarenot]

Is the westell unit cost prohibitive to get one, and play with it?

I was not in any way trying to say anyone would put forward a solution that was not well thought out at the project management level. Your inquiries prove you are asking the right questions.

I would also add that this forum, and its members are probably the best places to find the people who may have the exact experience you are looking for in regard to your project. Under MVP's clicking full list, and finding a users name probably will tell you something about their knowledge level of the IPO. I would watch your post, and contact one of those that seems knowledgable as a possible resource for your project.

I know Avaya monitors this forum, as well as some distributors as well to find solutions to IPO issues, or work aropunds.

 

[tnlcom]

aarenot,

The Campus already has two of these Westell units and yes, this has crossed my mind as they bought them to play with and don't seem to know what they have bought! and yes again, I expect to pool resources on a project of this size if it goes to plan and look for some help in installing whatever we need. The IP Office is no problem it's finding someone with the experience to help configure the other stuff.

Courses are all well and good but you have to get your feet well and truly wet to find out how this stuff works!

I sense this could be one of those occasions!

I'll ask if I can borrow them.

 

[aarenot]

I have always been one to say, "Yes, if you have the book I can do it. It may take some time" So I hear you on the getting your feet soaking wet into something, and not really knowing something until you have played with it beyond what the teacher/book/course says.


I may get some training on the IPO next year though. I am still just going on what I have learned myself, and probably should take a course of some sort. Only things I have taken are the assesments, and tests.

 

[robboardman]

If your going to use the westell , there is a tech tip about connecting the ipo to an index via a westell dpnss gateway, if you follow this and get the isdx setup the same as the documentation you will be fine, just recently installed one of these, it pretty much fit it and forget it once its up and running. you just need the siemens engineer to setup the recieved digits and then setup incoming call routes on the IPO

Robb

 

[tnlcom]

Thanks for the heads up robboardman on this, I had actually found it last night digging around the Avaya support site and it looks pretty good.

Still good to hear from someone who has used one though and not found many problems with it!

AS for courses aarenot, I am 4.1 delta trained with all Avaya IP Office courses passed and up to date (inc CCC i'm what is technically termed a SWOT!!). I am currently doing more training it never stops but as said, you can't beat trying stuff first in the field to prove it works which is why robs information on having done it is so useful.

I tend to install first and do the course after!

Our moto here is "how hard can it be"!

 

[aarenot]

I have all my tests conquered for some time now, but I also did them in the field prior to taking the tests, and since I never took any classes they were all before taking the class. I just learned what was needed to do whatever I needed to do which sounds like a place you are familiar with tnlcom!