Interesting installment/ongoing argument 1

[carrr]

http://www.fortune.com/fortune/ontech/0,15704,593907,00.html?cnn=yes

"'Tis an ill wind that blows no minds." - Malaclypse the Younger

 

[MakeItSo]

Really interesting.

... Judge Susan Illston ruled that consumers do not have the right to make backup copies of the DVD discs they purchase. ...
Does this mean that I'm breaking the law when I use DVD X Copy to make a copy of my DVD for personal use? Apparently so. ...
Does it mean that I'm breaking the law when I use Apple iTunes to make a copy of my audio CD for personal use? Apparently not. Why the difference?

Good question indeed, that shows up the non-sense of this verdict!
And interesting development: invent a DVD burner and writable DVDs, wait a while and then establish a law making DVD copying illegal (mark: copying DVDs you have bought, not downloading from internet and burning or copying rented DVDs...).

Was this judge ...encouraged... by the film industry or is she just an embittered, unsatisfied person?

Sometimes all the world seems to be paranoid and overdetermined by self-proclaimed guards of moral...

 

[ecobb]

I agree that this is ridiculous. Sometimes I thing judges come up with rulings like this just so they can get their name in the spotlight and have their 15 minutes of fame.

MakeItSo - And interesting development: invent a DVD burner and writable DVDs, wait a while and then establish a law making DVD copying illegal ...Well, you really can't expect them to pass a law on a technology until after it's been invented, can you?



Hope This Helps!

Ecobb

"My work is a game, a very serious game." - M.C. Escher

 

[Grenage]

There definately needs to be clarification on what is and what is not legally acceptable.

As you quite rightly say if you can rip music to MP3 legally then you should obviously be entitled to make a backup copy, only the format of the backup has varied.

Perhaps the record companies themselves could print on the music/film whether or not they will allow it to be duplicated for safekeeping.

With regards to MakeItSo's comment of releasing DVD writers and then shortly afterwards introducing a law banning DVD copying; there are of course other uses for a burner than copying commercial DVDs. Personally I find DVD burners to be extremely useful for backing up files where it would take several CDs.

 

[MakeItSo]

Agreed and good point Grenage.
I only meant the ones with marketing aimed towards non-professional use. Should have expressed clearer.

 

[Grenage]

To that we are in full agreement. Perhaps one day soon laws will be introduced that make things clearer.

 

[theoxyde]

Perhaps one day soon laws will be introduced that make things clearer.

That would be a first.

 

[cdogg]

The funny thing is that according to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act here in the US, you are allowed to make a backup as long as you are not circumventing copyright protection mechanisms like Macrovision for example. Well, that just about rules out every DVD that holds a copyright (Store-bought and rental DVD's).

So I guess the software used to make a backup is illegal, although the backup itself is not?


~cdogg
[tab]"All paid jobs absorb and degrade the mind"
[tab][tab]- Aristotle
[navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[cdogg]

Actually, here's an interesting update that I'm sure ALL of you will appreciate. See this article for an in-depth analysis on the DMCA and "fair use" policies:

[URL unfurl="true"]http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/mpg/ifoedit-dvdauthor.htm[/url]


Here's just a tiny excerpt of that article that caught my attention:

"[blue]This is a big one. As you can read in Judge Kaplan's statement about the preliminary injunction against 2600.com he made it abundantly clear that the defendants were not being charged for copyright infringement but rather for dissemination of a tool that violates 1201a2...

So here's the problem: You have the right to copy your own movie for personal use but you're barred from circumventing any copy-protection mechanism. So what can you do? If you want to interpret section 1201a strictly to the letter that would mean that fair use is essentially dead. As soon as content is protected by any any-copy technology fair use rights do not apply anymore. This interpretation has been criticized by numerous law professors throughout the United States.[/blue]"

 

[Grenage]

The paradox of some laws indeed, you are allowed to make a backup providing the studios will allow it.

All the more incentive to not use my DVDs as coasters...

 

[CajunCenturion]

I think some may be missing the fine points of this ruling, and there are a number of misconceptions being bandied about in this thread.

The ruling against 321 Studios is based on the fact that their ripping software decrypts the DVD. The problem is not in copying the DVD, the problem is in decrypting the DVD. It is perfectly legal to make a backup copy of the encrypted DVD, as long as the backup copy is equally encrypted, which provides all of the functional capabilities of having the backup in the first place. By decrypting the DVD, you are not making a copy, but are changing the format, and it is the format changing, that is the circumventing of copy-protection mechanism, that violates the law.

The owner of a copyright has the legal authority to decide what and how copying may be legal, provided such wishes are not in conflict with existing laws. Existing copyright laws, and the DCMA, do not consider copying with decryption as fair use, whereas simply copying for backup is fair use.

Sometimes I thing judges come up with rulings like this just so they can get their name in the spotlight and have their 15 minutes of fame.

That is the law, and the Judge did her job by ruling as she did. We may not like the law, or we may disagree with the law, but I'm glad that our judges rule in enforcement of the law.

... then establish a law making DVD copying illegal...

In this context, making a backup copy of a purchased DVD is not illegal. Descrypting that DVD is what is illegal.

Again, the issue is not making backup copies, its circumventing the encryption. Make your backup copies, just keep your backups encrypted. Otherwise, your backup is not a copy, it's in a different format.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[Stella740pl]

Pardon my ignorance, I don't own any DVDs as of now and thus never felt any need to even try to copy them. Is it possible to make working encripted copies of an encripted DVD? If it is, what's the need for encription-circumventing software? If it is not, how to make use out of fair use?

 

[Grenage]

You are correct, I did let this point pass me by.

I still find it somewhat irritating that one can legally "rip" music CDs and convert them into an alternative format such as MP3, but can not do the same with films.

I don't personally feel the need to back up music or films but I can appreciate why others might.

 

[CajunCenturion]

That's a good question stella740pl, and I don't know the answer. But based on the following comment from the cdogg's posted link to Doom9 (2/23 posting):

... But if they cannot manage to obtain a stay within 7 days, the entire DVD backup software line will be replaced with versions that do not include CSS descrambling.

I would venture a guess that yes, it can.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[cdogg]

The problem is that without decrypting a DVD, you are forced to leave the entire DVD intact. Most DVD's out there use the DVD-9 format (9GB+) which is roughly twice the capacity of DVD-5 (4.7GB). So obviously you would need to split the DVD into two discs, compress it so that it can fit onto one DVD, or cut out items like DVD extras. All 3 options involve circumventing encryption.

Until Blue Ray and other companies begin releasing newer technology for higher capacity recording, it's pretty much unpratical to have to leave the entire DVD completely intact.

Nevertheless as Cajun pointed out, current laws governing "fair use" and "copyright" do not permit us to do any different.


~cdogg
[tab]"All paid jobs absorb and degrade the mind"
[tab][tab]- Aristotle
[navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[cdogg]

Looks like Cajun & I posted at the same time!

Yes, I would suspect that others out there will find a way to leave encryption intact while being able to compress it at the same time. It's just a matter of time until such a tool is available...

 

[CajunCenturion]

I still find it somewhat irritating that one can legally "rip" music CDs and convert them into an alternative format such as MP3, but can not do the same with films.

What you're talking about is format-shifting and I'm not sure that it is considered legal. The courts have ruled that time-shifting is fair use (Betamax decision), but I am not aware of any ruling which considered format-shifting fair use.

One big problem with declaring format-shifting as fair use would mean that I could take a novel written in French, and re-write it in English and could defend that action as fair use under the format-shifting provisions.

Are you aware of such a decision declaring that format-shifting is considered fair use? If so, please enlighten us (or at least me).

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[strongm]

>one can legally "rip" music CDs

Not in the UK...

 

[sleipnir214]

I, too, am wondering, what purpose the encryption of DVDs actually serves. It's so brain-dead an encryption that a 7-line perl script can decrypt it.

The only possible use I can see for the existence of the encryption at all is as a place to hang lawsuits from.



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TANSTAAFL!!

 

[theoxyde]

sleipnir214: It's the same concept as gun control. Making weak laws (copy protection) that most law abiding citizens will obey, whilst leaving the weapons (piracy) in the hands of the people who have no intention of obeying the law.