Installing lots of browsers 7

[Dweezel]

I'm designing sites and need to test them on a range of browsers. I've currently got IE6, Firefox 1.0 and NN7 installed on my computer. I need to now how to go about installing older browsers, and any possible conflicts or problems that I can avoid. Ideally I'd like to add IE5 and NN6 to the above list (I'll also be adding the latest Opera browser tonight, though I'm not expecting any problems with that). I'm not concerned about version 4 browsers (my sites are CSS heavy, and life's to short )

From what I've read on the net installing IE5 alongside IE6 is going to be the problem. Do I need to partition my hard drive? Or would that not help?

Any advice here would be appreciated.

 

[johnwm]

I just keep my old machine networked and keep the older browsers (IE5, NN6) there. By using VNC you only need the box itself - no monitor, kb or mouse - so no clutter.

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[ChrisHunt]

You can install multiple Internet Explorers, but it's not straightforward. See this link:

http://labs.insert-title.com/labs/article795.aspx

.

If you've got money to spend on cross-browser checking, you might also want to check out

http://www.browsercam.com/

-- Chris Hunt
Webmaster & Tragedian
Extra Connections Ltd

 

[Dweezel]

Thanks for that link Chris. I don't have a spare computer to network so I think that's the method I'll use.

I've just read a post in another forum that says it's OK to run as many versions of Netscape Navigator as you like on a single hard drive, and that this shouldn't cause problems. Anyone have any experience of running multiple Netscape versions?

 

[ChrisHunt]

Yeah, you can have as many Netscape versions as you can stand. It's only IE that has this problem. The reason (I think) is that there's a central HTML rendering engine that's part of the Windows OS, for which the IE browser is the usual front-end. When you upgrade IE, you upgrade the engine - so older versions can't usually coexist.

The technique linked to above uses multiple versions of the engine, and (somehow) tricks the old browsers into using the old engines.

-- Chris Hunt
Webmaster & Tragedian
Extra Connections Ltd

 

[mobajwa]

Did you look into Apps like Browser hawk.That might be what you want too ?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Welcome to BrowserHawk – the easiest way to detect and accommodate differences in browser capabilities from your web scripts. This allows you to easily produce and maintain web sites that reach the widest possible audience, while providing a consistent look and feel and level of operation for all visitors.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-
mobajwa

After the game ,the king and the pawn , both go in the same box.

 

[ChrisHunt]

Browserhawk -

http://www.cyscape.com/products/

- seems to be a product of the bad old days of the browser wars. They promote it with a quote saying

...the relative installed bases of Netscape Navigator/Communicator and Microsoft Internet Explorer are getting closer to parity...

Like, yeah, in 1997 maybe.

It's a product for sniffing out what browser the visitor is using, so you can serve up some HTML that they will understand. All very last century IMO.

-- Chris Hunt
Webmaster & Tragedian
Extra Connections Ltd

 

[mobajwa]

LOL.. sorry.. i didnt know it was that old !!!

-
mobajwa

After the game ,the king and the pawn , both go in the same box.

 

[Dweezel]

Thanks for the help guys. I'll be downloading some older versions of Netscape Navigator tonight.

 

[Dweezel]

Sorry to keep adding to this thread, but I've got one last question regarding browsers. Am I right in thinking that if a site works OK in IE6.0 and IE5.0, then it should work OK in IE5.5?

Thanks.

 

[BabyJeffy]

IE 5.5 for Windows is riddled with CSS problems... so making that assumption is not a good thing. Personally, I test using 5.0, 5.5 and 6.0 versions when checking a site under Windows.

I'm gonna throw a spanner in the works now... have you considered what the site might look like in non-Windows browsers?

Safari is the "built-in default" for all Macintosh hardware sold now (since Microsoft ceased development on IE for the Mac)... and many people still use IE (version 5.2) for MacOSX (even though it is a dead product). Firefox is pretty much the same across all platforms I've used - so no worry there.

Just so you know.
Jeff

 

[Dweezel]

Thanks Jeff. Does anyone have any experience with Safari? Is it a buggy browser or does it conform fairly closely to web standards?

As testing my sites thoroughly in the popular browsers is geting even more complex, I've been looking for some solutions on the net. One suggested solution is to install an emulator. Aparently if I install something like VMWare I can run different OS's (as programs inside VMWare) on the same computer without partitioning. I have an old copy of Windows 98SE which I think runs IE5.0, and I can get my hands on a copy of Windows 2000 which comes with IE5.5.
I'm told I could even install a Mac OS on there to test Mac browser compatibility.

Does anyone have any experience with emulators?

 

[glenmac]

I've used VMWare in the past and it works fine with lots of ram and a speedy chip.

Glen

http://lantzvillecomputers.ca

 

[BabyJeffy]

I use Safari (v1.2.4) a lot and have found it to be more standards compliant than most (especially when it comes to CSS). I find that when I declare XHTML 1.1 Strict in my doctype, I can get my code to look the same across IE 5.2, FireFox and Safari on MacOSX as well as IE 5.0, IE 5.5, IE 6.0, Firefox, and Opera on Windows... without doing anything other than maintaining validation.

All this talk about emulators is fine... if you have the technical skill to set them up and the patience to do so.

To add to the discussion on emulators - the PearPC project is a MacOSX emulator for Windows - and can be used to run Safari and IE 5.2 for testing... although it's very very very slow (at the moment).

Please be aware that you need to buy the licenses to the operating systems if you run them in VMWare or PearPC, and you need to purchase the VMWare software as well (PearPC is free).

My ideal solution to your problem:
- install multiple versions of IE on your windows computer (4.x, 5.0, 5.5 and 6.0) using the link that ChrisHunt posted
- install Firefox - standard
- install Netscape (and any versions under it that you like) - standard
- install Opera 8 - standard
- buy a "Mac Mini" and use your existing keyboard, mouse and monitor
- install IE 5.2 on the Mac - standard
- install Firefox on the Mac - standard
- install Netscape (and any versions under it that you like) - standard
- install Opera 8 - standard

Now you have a proper development test-bed that is not (overly) expensive and will work at a good speed (no slow emulators). Given that my ideal solution requires the purchase of a "Mac Mini", this is not a free solution... but then you would have to pay for the licenses of operating systems AND VMWare if you went for emulators, I think I can justify the cost this way.

Jeff

PS: If you were to install the Lynx browser, you could see what your site would be like without CSS or graphics. This is a text based browser and is a good starting point for testing code for screen readers, search engine bots and the like.

 

[Dweezel]

Thanks for the replies, especially to Jeff for being so thorough.

I've had no luck altering IE5.0 so that it can work alongside 6.0, and as I'd ultimately like to have a linux system running as well I've decided to take the 'Virtual PC' route. I've already got Windows 98SE which comes with IE5.0, so no need to shell out for that.

I think I'm going to go for Microsoft Virtual PC. I've read good things about it on the net, but the main reason for chosing it is that they've got a very active support newsgroup. One problem is that I don't have an ethernet card and I'll need one to run Virtual PC. I haven't got a clue when it comes to computer hardware. I've been looking on Ebay and they seem to be very cheap. Not sure which one I need though. I'll have to do a bit of web surfing to find out more about them.

I'll invest in a Mac Mini next month as well. It's cheap ( a cheap Mac! pigs are flying past my window. ), and I'm sure it'll be more than capable for what I need. Plus it looks very cool ( see, I'm thinking like a Mac head already and I haven't even bought it yet

Thanks for the tip Jeff.

 

[dunkauk]

Just a thought, if you try going to

http://www.skyzyx.com/downloads/

there are 4 free standalone versions of Internet Explorer. There is IE3, IE4, IE 5.01 and IE 5.5, they don't require installing and run straight from the dir.

 

[glenmac]

Thanks dunkauk. A valuable addition to my tool kit, a star for you.

Glen

http://lantzvillecomputers.com

 

[Dweezel]

Yeah, thanks a lot dunkauk. That link's saved me time and money.
Well I'm fully browsered up on Windows now. The linux testing platform will have to wait I guess

Thanks again.