Installation screwed up and server is in limbo (ish...)

[ADB100]

I have built a test server using the Netware 6.5 Evaluation CD's you can download from Novell. This is purely a test server so it is just a Pentium 3/933MHz PC with 512MH RAM and 20GB disk. I have built this to look into the DHCP server functionality for a customer so it's life will be limited.
Anyway during the install it got as far as loading the ConsoleOne GUI and then hung - or at least said please wait for 6-hours.... It appears to have copied everything but I think the various startup files have not been created. I have managed to manually load the Network Drivers and get TCP/IP installed but it's not quite right...

Is there a way to restart the installation from where it left off or do I need to wipe and re-install everything? All I want to actually do is get the OS installed with TCP/IP as the only protocol, then get NDS installed enough so I can start the DHCP/DNS services. I then want to get the GUI manager for the DHCP/DNS services running so I can check out the configuration options and capture some screenshots.

Andy

 

[ADB100]

A bit more info if anyone wants to help....

I have tried re-installing this from scratch twice now and it seems to hang at the same point. Well it doesn't really hang, it just sits there waiting.

The installation gets to the 'Choose a pattern' where I select 'Customized Netware Server' and hit next. At the next screen I don't select any additional components and click next, it then tells me its going to install 'Basic Netware Components' and asks for the 2nd CD. I insert the CD and it begins copying the files - this takes an absolute age, like 3 hours or so. It's after this bit that the 'Please Wait' box appears and never goes away. I can hit ALT/ESC to switch between processes and happily load stuff from the console.
The server seems reasonably responsive but the dialogue box stays in the Console One window and there is no way to continue. I assume downing the server at this point leaves it in the 'Limbo' state and when it restarts it only loads a minimal set of processes/services.

Can anyone offer any help?

Andy

 

[marvhuffaker]

I don't understand what you say when you say it's on the "ConsoleOne" Window. It's very rare to even want to run ConsoleOne from the server. Usually you do it from a workstation.

Tehcnically, whether it finished or not, you should be able to recover from it and move on, but I"m not sure how many pieces and components you are missing. Trying to explain what you need to do would almost be impossible.

You could start by downloading/installing the Novell client to your workstation, then authenticating to the server and make sure that client/server pieces are good. Then you could go from there (again, not sure exactly what you'll need to do from there).

On one additional note, I NEVER reinstall a server. Once is enough and any additional work should be able to be done without a reinstall.

Marvin Huffaker, MCNE

http://www.redjuju.com

 

[ADB100]

Thanks for the reply Marvin. The Console One appears on the Server during the install. I haven't touched Netware since Netware 4.1 was released so this is all relatively new teritory for me (MS & Cisco through & through unfortunately).
Anyhow I have attempted to re-install this again and have managed to get a bit further. If I don't select any additional components after the 'Choose Pattern' screen it actually completes the installation and reboots (I was mistaken on the previous post as I added DHCP/DNS Services). However all I want is to get the DHCP/DNS Service working so I can check out some features and get some screen shots for a customer.
Once it has rebooted the server automatically loads the X-Server GUI (isn't this Console One?), from here I select Install and try to add DHCP/DNS, it asks for the Products CD and starts copying files. It gets to 100% of copying then a short while after an error is recorded on the Console screen - something about a 'serious error'. At this point the 'Please Wait' dialogue box is displayed on the X-Server GUI screen and that's as far as it gets. If I down the server the DHCP/DNS service isn't there.

I have downloaded the Netware 6.5 SP5 overlay CD's and will attempt to re-install it again (I'm not going to get these hours back am I.....).

Andy

 

[ADB100]

OK - I have tried reinstalling from scratch using the Netware 6.5 SP5 CD's. I did a basic install from the Choose Pattern screen (I think it said Basic Netware Server?). It completed the install and rebooted. After it had started all the various services the X-Server GUI appears on the Server, from here I selected Install and attempted to add DHCP/DNS Services. At the moment that is where it is stuck - I have a dialogue box titled Progress and says Configuring Novell iManager 2.5 and is stuck at 80%. It has been on this screen for several hours so far, the server is still responding however (slow) and the advertising or whatever in the background keeps changing. Again there is another dialogue box displayed that just says Please Wait.....

 

[marvhuffaker]

Ok by ConsoleOne you mean the GUI based screen that launches from STARTX in the AUTOEXEC.NCF file.

ConsoleOne is actually a JAVA based management tool that CAN run in the GUI on the server but most people don't. They run it from a workstation.

I would recommend that you get the server installed, make sure its stable, clean up the startups to only include what you want, etc.. before you try to install additional products.

Regarding DNS.. You don't need iManager to manage it. In fact, using iManager to manage DNS is a big time PAIN IN THE BUTT. I would hold off on iManager for now as it seems to be killing your system, maybe due to lack of memory. (Note that 512 is absolute bottom of the barrel minimum and I wouldn't try to run a production system with less than 1GB) See my recommended settings here:

http://www.redjuju.com/resources/guides/index.htm

If you want to just install DNS/DHCP, install it from the GUI (Shouldnt' take more than a couple minutes), then you should be able to find a folder: SYSUBLIC\DNSDHCP. In that folder is a setup file that you run from your workstation. It will install the DNS DHCP Management Utility that works much better than iManager for managing DNS and DHCP.

BTW, no matter what my plans are for the server, I always do a CUSTOM install and unselect EVERYTHING. If I need something specific, then I'll check only those components I want. Ends up much cleaner in the end.


On another note regarding iManager... I don't install iManager from the GUI install. Instead, I download it from Novell at

http://download.novell.com,

search for iManager. Download version 2.6. Install from your local workstation, keep in mind that the process takes forever. I've seen it take 3 hours. It will go through the 1-100% pretty quick, but then it downloads/installs snapins etc from Novell and even though it sits at 100%, it can sit there for hours. I'm guessing that it could take even longer on the system you are using since it is a little slow and pretty narrow on the RAM.

When all said and done, go to your SYS:SYSTEM\AUTOEXEC.NCF file and rem out the STARTX line. you don't need the GUI to run and it only hogs resources.





Marvin Huffaker, MCNE

http://www.redjuju.com

 

[ADB100]

Thanks for the tips Marvin. Thankfully I have managed to get DHCP/DNS installed and I can edit the config either in the WEB-based iManager or via the DHCP/DNS management Client.
Unfortunately the feature I was specifically looking for doesn't seem to be available in Novell's DHCP Server which is a bit of a let down ( I was specifically looking at how to set up Vendor Classes for hosts that identify themselves to the DHCP server to request customised options.

A bit of background - We have a customer with Ericsson IP Phones & Cisco Aironet Lightweight Access Points, unfortunately both request Option 43 but the content needs to be different depending on the device. In the DHCP Discover packets both the Ericsson IP Phones and the Cisco AP's send a unique Vendor Class Identifier in Option 60. With Windows 2000/2003 DHCP Service you can specify Vendor Class Identifiers and send different options to different clients.
I know this can be worked around by having different DHCP Scopes with different options but this means each switch in the network will require an additional VLAN - i.e. Data, Voice and now WLAN.

Am I missing something or are Vendor Classes just not available in Novell's DHCP Service?

Thanks

Andy

 

[marvhuffaker]

What you are asking for is something I have never done with DHCP. On the surface, Novell's DHCP may appear to lack this feature, but there are NUMEROUS advanced configurations that can be done with the right know-how. Regarding Win vs. Novell.... On the flip side, I'm very disappointed in MS's DHCP implementation because they make it extremely difficult to add some basic options to the DHCP packet for a Novell environment (SLP Options 78 and 79).. On Novell's DHCP, it's just a simple checkmark, on Windows it is adding custom fields with hex translations etc. I suspect that your solution may be the same with Novell's DHCP.

I found this Novell thread that may get you where you need to be. It looks like it can be done, but the implementation isn't exactly easy:

http://groups.google.com/group/nove...dor+classes+option+43&rnum=2#759c37c1f115d703

One thing they are mentioning is using ConsoleOne (Instead of the DHCP Manager) to manually modify certain properties of the DHCP object(s). This is one thing that I _HAVE_ done and does work, although it is generally recommended that you use the management tool or iManager. (As soon as you manually hack the DHCP stuff you're pretty much on your own)

They also mention that iManager with NW6.5 SP6 'may' have a fix for this. I have not yet used SP6 since it was just barely released. If you take this route, this is the way I would approach it:

- NW6.5 SP5 Installed
- DHCP Installed
- iManager 2.6 installed and functional (Separate download)

Then apply SP6.. If the patch they mention IS in fact included, it will apply the necessary snapins into your iManager configuration.

Marvin

Marvin Huffaker, MCNE

http://www.redjuju.com

 

[ADB100]

I applied SP6 to my NW 6.5 SP5 installation and the DHCP options I wanted are still not available. Regretably it looks like my customer is going to have to either install a Windows 2003 Server for DHCP or we need to add an additional VLAN to each access switch and use a different DHCP server for these VLANs.

I am a bit surprised Novell haven't incorporated Vendor Class Identifiers into the Netware DHCP service since this has been available in Windows since Windows 2000.....

Andy

 

[marvhuffaker]

I'm really surprised that anybody would put a Novell server in SOLELY for the purpose of DHCP. What a waste.

You should look at it for its strengths and value it can add:

- iPrint is far superior to any other printing system on the market today.

- File services (file sharing, file system) - Better, faster, easier to manage than Windows any day.

- iFolder - I can't live without this awesome offline file synchronization and management tool

- DNS and DHCP - I personally have never ran into a situation where I couldn't get Novells' DHCP or DNS to do what I needed. And it's solid.

Etc..


Marvin Huffaker, MCNE

http://www.redjuju.com

 

[ADB100]

Hi Marvin

I get the feeling you are a big Novell fan and an even bigger Microsoft hater.....

The issue I am faced with however is this:

My customer has a Netware network and to sucessfully deploy Ericsson IP Phones and Cisco Lightweight Wireless Access Points on the same LAN I need a feature in DHCP that isn't available in Novell's DHCP Service. Currently only Microsoft's DHCP Service offers this feature (Vendor Classes) so my only recommendation to the customer can be get a Windows 2000/2003 DHCP Server.

I am sure there are loads of good features in Netware but this one small feature it lacks means it will not work with the Ericsson IP Phones & Cisco Wireless Access Points. It's pretty black and white really.

Thanks for your assistance with this.

Andy

 

[marvhuffaker]

I'm not a microsoft hater. I have a Microsoft keyboard that is better than any other keyboard I've ever had. My company uses Windows XP. We use Windows servers in our production environment. They are necessary in certain situations and it's part of running business. Novell is superior in many ways, no doubt about that. But both have their place. Much of what we do as consultants is integrate both environments.

I am not fond of 'microsoft techies' that don't understand NetWare (understandably) and use their own lack of knowledge of NetWare and Novell products to immediately dismiss them as viable options.

The fact of the matter is that NetWare's DHCP DOES support vendor class options. Option 43 is right there on the default list. It has been for years. The implementation may be a little quirky - no question about it. But after I labbed up a Windows box and attempted to see how Windows does it, I found that Windows method isn't any better. With Windows, it doesn't just magically set things up like you elluded to earlier. You are required to manually enter the data, and there is absolutely nothing that validates that what you have entered is correct.

So I believe it would be fair to say that with what you want to do, it's not necessarily the platform that is important - it's understanding how to correctly build the string that needs to be entered into the Vendor ID field.

As mentioned earlier (and in that post I referenced), you should not use the DHCP Management console. The formatting of this field is wierd and doesn't let you have the control you need. You need to use iManager.

Make sure SP6 is applied to your server. Use iManager 2.6. Make sure that when you first login, it displays imanager version 2.6 right there on the first screen. And make sure you have version "1.0.20060907" of the DHCP snapin. Config (Guy sitting at desk) --> Plug In Installation --> Installed Novell Plugins.

Once you have verified you are running the correct code, you use iManager to change the code that Option 43 is passing. It appears that you just enter it as a series of numbers (Just like with Windows).. I have tested this and proven that it can be configured. I have no way to verify that it is working correctly. You need to restart your DHCP service after you have made this change.

Another thing that I just realized is that you have said many times that you can not make it work on NetWare, but its easy on Windows. A lot of people get hung up on this when its just a matter of understanding NetWare's implementation. Despite the numerous explanations that have been given, we have no way of knowing if you have actually done it correctly.

Post the string that you would use on Windows and it would be easier to tell you what needs to be done on Netware.

Marvin Huffaker, MCNE

http://www.redjuju.com

 

[ADB100]

Hi Marvin

I think you have misunderstood the way Vendor Class Identification works in DHCP.

Basically the client identifies itself to the DHCP server in its DHCP Discover via Option 60 - For example Cisco 1100 series Wireless Access Points send the string "Cisco AP c1100" in Option 60. Ericsson IP Phones send the string "Ericsson IP-Phone". However both devices also request Option 43 but they need to be different. The DHCP Server sends a different Option 43 back to the client depending on what it identified itself as.

This is what you can't do with Netwares DHCP service. I have worked out how to edit the Option 43 Hex string under Netware through iManager or the DHCP Manager application but you can't make the Server send different Option 43 responses based on the clients VCI. This is done with MS's DHCP service through the advanced options. There is a good expanation on Cisco website here:

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products...nical_reference09186a00804fc3dc.html#wp125304

In the description it talks about Option 241, however this is embedded in the Option 43 response. The Option 43 Hex string then looks something like:

0x2b 0x06 0xf1 0x04 0x0a 0x09 0x09 0x09 ff

43 6 241 4 10 9 9 9 255


Andy