Indesign print to inkjet issue 1

[OldMacUser]

Sudden problem of colour space and file profile not outputting correctly.

Indesign and Photoshop CS3
MacPro 2.66, OS10.5.11
Inputs to page makeup dig photos sRGB1966 profiles
Default working space Adobe1998
(tested change of working space to sRGB1966, no difference)
Eizo monitor, calibrated by Spyder Pro3, tests well with standard target.
Printer Canon Pro9000.
Paper Canon Glossy PP201, have correct profile on driver.
After all that, poorly matching output, but pdf export is near-perfect on screen.
HELP!

 

[apepp]

...Indesign CS3 and mac os 10.4 or 10.5 do have a bug when outputting to non-postcript RGB inkjet printers (not being processed by a Postscript RIP, which would then be considered a CMYK device)...

...also when printing to an RGB printer you should well be using Edit > Transparency Blend Space > RGB...

As quoted by Real World Color Management author Chris Murphy:

"When printing to RGB output devices from InDesign using the same ICC profiles and settings as in Photoshop, you still get crummy results, in terms of color, that differ from both IDCS2 and other Adobe applications including Photoshop CS3.

InDesign CS2 previously did all rasterizing and color space conversion in InDesign prior to submitting the print job to the OS. In CS3 this was changed to submit PostScript + colorspace information, which is then supposed to be normalized by the OS. Except that it doesn’t work. Mac OS X drops the color space information.

The workaround is to enable “Print as Bitmap” in the Advanced pane of the Print dialog in InDesign. This causes IDCS3 to do the conversion and generate a bitmap prior to submitting to the OS (the default behavior with IDCS2), rather than depending on the OS to do color conversion or rasterizing. Thus you can use the same ICC profiles and print driver settings as with all other Adobe applications if you choose this option."

Andrew

andrew

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http://www.apepp.info

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[apepp]

...further info on color printing is as follows:

Ensure the same color space. If you spec a CMYK color in Photoshop, but the image is in the RGB mode, you’re not going to get what you expect. Even if you convert that RGB image into CMYK, you still won’t get the CMYK values you specified. If you want a CMYK color in Photoshop, you need to make sure the document is in CMYK before you spec it. Seems obvious, but this messes up a lot of people.

This is interesting because a number of people import RGB images into InDesign. That’s not a problem; InDesign converts RGB images to CMYK beautifully. But if you need to have number-accurate color matching between the image and an InDesign swatch, you should probably convert the image to CMYK, then match the color numbers, then import the CMYK version into InDesign.

Ensure the same meaning. CMYK and RGB swatches are meaningless unless you associate a “profile” with them. For example, there are many different “reds” and “cyans.” The profile says what the colors actually look like. So check the Edit > Color Settings dialog box to make sure both Photoshop and InDesign are talking about the same colors. If you’re working with CMYK colors (which I assume you are here), you almost certainly want the Photoshop’s CMYK color profile to be the same as the InDesign document’s CMYK color profile. By default, they are (in the U.S., it’s US Web Coated SWOP v2).

Note that this actually gets rather confusing, because the color profiles in Color Settings are not necessarily the profiles assigned to the InDesign or Photoshop document open in front of you. InDesign actually makes it rather difficult to figure out what the current document profile is. Perhaps the best way to find out is to choose Edit > Convert to Profile. The current document settings are listed as “Source Space.” Then press Cancel — don’t actually use the convert to profile feature unless you really know what you’re doing.

When the CMYK working space color profiles are the same, then speccing a CMYK color in Photoshop and as a swatch in InDesign ensure that both programs are talking about the same color.

You do need to embed your CMYK profiles if there’s a chance that the CMYK image will be opened for further editing later on, especially by someone else who may not know what CMYK space you’ve been using. InDesign generally uses the actual CMYK numbers in the image, ignoring its color profile.

Preserve Numbers. If you’re printing separations or to Composite CMYK rather than RGB (see below), make sure that Preserve Numbers is turned on in the Color Management pane of InDesign’s Print dialog box. It’s okay if that checkbox is turned on but also grayed out. Same thing goes in the Output pane of the Export PDF dialog box: You should use Convert to Destination (Preserve Numbers) — not the plain ol’ convert to destination. When Preserve Numbers is enabled, InDesign just passes CMYK values through to the printer, rather than trying to match CMYK colors. For most of us, in most cases, that’s a good thing — it avoids things like 100% black turning into four-color CMYK black.

Printing Proofs from InDesign. If you’re going to print a proof from InDesign to a color printer, you first want to visit the View > Proof Setup > Custom dialog box. Choose the final output printer here — the press profile, not the proofer! Then, in InDesign’s Print dialog box:

In the Output pane, choose whether your proofing device is Composite RGB or Composite CMYK. In general, I treat color inkjet printers and color laser printers as RGB devices. Even though they use CMYK inks or toner, they tend to expect RGB data to be coming at them, so that’s what I like to send them.
In the Color Management Pane, choose Proof. The profile you last used in the Proof Setup dialog box is remembered and shows up here. Again, this should be the profile of your final press device (or use something like SWOP if you have no custom profile).

In the Color Handling pop-up menu, choose Let InDesign Determine Colors.
In the Printer Profile pop-up menu, choose the profile for your proofing device. Most good inkjets come with a number of custom profiles, one for each different paper stock or resolution you’re using. Pick the closest one you can. If you don’t have a custom profile for that printer, consider just using sRGB IEC61966.
Don’t expect a lot from a laser. No matter how good your color laser printer, it’s unlikely that you’ll ever get as good or as consistent color as from an inkjet printer. You can get reasonable color, but don’t expect miracles. That said, the colors between Photoshop and InDesign should still match on a color laser printer.

Turn off driver color management. When you print from InDesign or Photoshop, that program does all its color management, and then hands the file off to the printer driver to print it. Well, in many cases, the printer driver gets in the act, too, doing further color management! That’s bad. So, while you’re in the Print dialog box, click Printer (on the Mac) or Properties (Windows) and figure out how to turn off your printer’s color management settings. That may be in the ColorSync panel, or in the printer’s special settings, or both. You often have to search around a bit to find it.

Trust the Numbers, not the Proof. Ultimately, if you spec 50% cyan in the CMYK Photoshop image, and you spec 50% cyan in InDesign, and Preserve Numbers is turned on, you’re going to get 50% cyan in both places on press. Period. So if your color proof on a desktop printer doesn’t look exactly right, you should immediately open Window > Output > Separation Preview then turn on Separations in the panel’s View pop-up menu. Now scroll around the document, watching the numbers in the panel.



andrew

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http://www.apepp.info

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[OldMacUser]

Apepp:

Thanks for very thorough post in reply. I need to work through this in detail so I can't yet report results. Some of the advice I've already done, however the info about CMYK etc is especially interesting. I had established that Indesign CS3 was probably the culprit, previously I was using just CS and with 10.4 didn't have a real problem, in addition I was using an Epson IJ which was fool-proof. In relation to 'turning off colour management', in the Canon Pro9000 driver, the driver version I'm using (10.26.0.0) the choice is Colorsync OR Vendor Matching and I always turn off Colorsync, however this doesn't seem to equate to 'no colour management'or if it does, it is a bit ambiguous.
Again thanks very much.

 

[apepp]

..if your driver does not allow turning off driver color management, then do the opposite and tell your adobe apps not to manage the color...

...essentially you need to avoid double profiling...

...you either has the app do it, or the printer driver, but not both...


andrew

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http://www.apepp.info

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[apepp]

...this thread may also help:

http://photocamel.com/forum/image-e...-cs3-manage-printer-colors-canon-pro9000.html

andrew

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http://www.apepp.info

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[apepp]

...if you do opt for colorsync in the driver, ensure you turn off the color management in adobe apps "let printer manage the color"...

...also ensure you select the correct profile in the colorsync option...

...don't forget though that mac os 10.4 through 10.5 (10.6 has apparently addressed the issue i've heard) with Indesign CS3 requires "print as bitmap"...



andrew

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http://www.apepp.info

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[OldMacUser]

Apepp.

Thanks enormously for all the input you have provided. I'm doing tests now and closing in on the issues. When I've reached the end of this I will let you know how I go. Very much appreciated and shows how good this forum is, days of frustration fixed in a much shorter period.

 

[OldMacUser]

apepp.

I'm grinding through your advice and so far, so good. One issue that may be a problem is 'turning colour management off' when setting up print to inkjet. With my driver (Canon Pro9000) the choices are 'Colorsync' and 'Vendor Matching'. This may be a bit ambiguous, is it reasonable to assume that Vendor Matching can only mean 'follow output device' (printer etc?