Implement Citrix vs. workstation upgrades

[rjs]

Need some advice/feedback on sizing servers, licensing issues, fault tolerance.

I've done a number of Citrix servers for remote access but now have a client which we are considering implementing a Citrix solution instead of replacing/upgrading all their workstations. About 100 users total, including 10-20 remote users. Currently running W98 at the desktop to NetWare 5 servers.

I am thinking 3 load balanced production Citrix servers plus one server to use for testing/troubleshooting and redundancy.

Questions:
1) Does the above sound right?
2) Advice on server hardware (dual CPUs, 1-2Gb RAM, etc)?
3) Licensing. Since the workstation are all W98, how does the MS CALs and MS terminal server licensing work? Do I need 100 for each server, or just 100 total?
4) Licensing for apps? Do I need 100 total or 100 for each server?

Finally, are their any gotchas or major disadvantages to implementing Citrix in this manner?

Thanks all.

 

[enigma99]

Hello rjs,
Our company had the same situation about a year ago. We just baught a new company and we were having to think about either upgrading all of their desktops/laptops or just rolling out Citrix. Our decision on going to Citrix was based on the hardware that we had and the hardware requirements that our applications required. It is also easier on rolling out new applications, updates or implementing new systems because it's all centrally managed.
You only do it on a couple of servers and you're done instead of having to touch about 30 end-users laptops/desktops.
Here is our hardware specs for our Citrix farm.
Compaq Proliant DL360 dual cpu boxes (PIII-1.2 ghz)
1.2 GB of SDRAM
2 18.2 ULTRA3 SCSI drives mirrored
Dual 10/100 NICS (load-balanced if possible)
Windows 2000 sp2 w/ Citrix MF 1.8 sp/3

Each server can hold around 40 users per box. We run Office 2000, SAP GUI, IXOS archive viewer and other home grown apps on them.

As far as licensing, you will need to purchase licenses for concurrent session to a citrix server. I think you will need CAL's for the WIN9x boxes but Windows 2000 and Windows XP boxes already come with one.

I probably missed a couple of things but that should give you some ideas. You might also want to baseline your users (are they power users or are they just running a single app?)
This will also determine how may users per box you can get.

Later.

 

[CitrixEngineer]

Your specifications look about right.

The main thing to check for is dependencies; While there are various rules of thumb, every environment, indeed every user is different and has different needs from the system.

I would certainly recommend getting dual processor machines over single, but not quad. The more memory you can put into the servers, the better. So, if the budget allows, go for 2Gb. Also consider a hardware RAID controller, with 2 disks set up as a mirrored pair. In an ideal world you would not be storing data on the Terminal Servers, so they do not need to be large.

If you can get 4 identical machines, then that would be the ideal, since your test box could then easily be swapped out for a dead live one.

Suggestion: The test server can easily be included in the live farm by simply restricting access except for testing purposes. You might want to do this rather than buy separate connection licenses for testing purposes.

A 5th server (probably one you are already using for this purpose) dedicated to Home directories, roaming profiles and file/print services can relieve a lot of headaches.

Windows CALs are required for non Windows 2000/XP clients (hardware, not users), a Citrix Connection license is required for each user session, as is a license for each application that will be run in those user sessions. This is worth thinking about before publishing all applications to all users, ie do the users need the apps?

I absolutely concur with baselining. This can and should be done via a pilot implementation to around 10 LAN users. Step the rollout incrementally, including a couple of remote users each time, and you will save a lot of hair (not to mention face!). Unless you are incredibly lucky, this will also work out cheaper in the long run than attempting to roll out the lot in one go. I've been there

The biggest single gotcha I can think of is integrating MetaFrame with Novell, for example; the Novell Client needs to be installed before MetaFrame.

Next is printing. You will have a smoother rollout if all your printers are perfectly compatible with Terminal Server.

OK, this is the real world.

I only used MetaFrame XP 1.0 briefly before we updated to FR1, and now FR2. With this flavour of MetaFrame, all printers are mapped using the CMC. On earlier versions, we had to edit the wtsuprn.inf file. The issue here was that Windows 9.x clients would often have different names for their printers to those on the server, and so had to be mapped.

My "favourite" was one of the Canon drivers, which had two spaces on the client, but only one on the server.

Last gotcha I can think of is watch out for network drive mappings. Some non-resolving drives can cause sessions to appear to freeze, or take a long time to log in. Check login scripts carefully, and be prepared to edit/login many times to troubleshoot this area.


Good luck! CitrixEngineer@yahoo.co.uk

 

[rjs]

Thanks to both of you.

 

[leap]

I am currently looking at adding 3000 users that run win95 on old PC's to a Citrix XPE FR2 / NFUSE 1.7 farm. The Users need to use SAP GUI v6.20. I currently have a Citrix farm using Compaq DL360, dual cpu, 1gb memory, raid 1 18 gb disks that support other applications. My question is how many concurrent SAP GUI users can be supported on one server and still get good response ? This is important since we are evaluating the difference between creating a larger Citrix farm or purchasing new PC's. Future planning for web based app's, enterprize portals and Cost are important in making the right decision. ($)

 

[wilsona]

Citrix Engineer states 'Next is printing. You will have a smoother rollout if all your printers are perfectly compatible with Terminal Server.'

Where do I find the compatibilirty list?

 

[CitrixEngineer]

With SAP, you'll find most of the issues are with printing.

The "compatibility list" is the list of printers that is supplied as default with Windows 2000 (whatever Service Pack you are currently running). If it's not on the default list, it may not be compatible.

I don't know about you, but "may not be compatible" strikes a nerve in me...

See also my recent post with the link to HP's new TS compatible drivers list.

If you're absolutely stuck with "may not be compatible" printers, test them in the lab first. Really.

Hope this helps (even if slightly O/T) CitrixEngineer@yahoo.co.uk

 

[wilsona]

Unfortunately, 'may not be compatible' leaves suppliers with a getout - I always insist that their hardware is on the Microsoft Compatibility List for the OS involved. You could try a driver, find it OK, apply a service pack or software upgrade, and then find you are getting BSODs... Testing unknown/unlisted drivers is a complete waste of time, unless your system is going to remain static after initial implementation. The Microsoft HCL is at:

http://www.microsoft.com/hwdq/hcl/search.asp

 

[JeffHicks]

Just an FYI. I too am looking at putting 1000+ SAP 6.2 users on a new Citrix farm. Our environment is about 85% Lexmark printers. I found an article on their site that lists a bunch of printers that they certify good on Citrix. Just search their website for Citrix and you should find it. I have added a couple of these and have not had any troubles yet. This has been a godsend, as Lexmarks used to be notoriously bad for Citrix.