I'm unable to RESTART the PC after CPU upgrading 3

[PaulAlexander]

Hi Guys,

Unfortunately the problem of an infinite series of beeps during "RESTART" persists after the PC has been working for sometime.

The problem appeared after I have upgraded the Mobo's Award BIOS to handle Athlon XP CPU's over the 1200MHz limit of my old AMD thunderbird. The new CPU is an AMD Athlon XP 1800+ palomino.

I have checked the case of Power Supply overloading by disconnecting every peripheral device in turn including PCI cards.
I have also checked the RAM sticks by taking them off one at a time and reseating them cleaning first the area.

I noticed that the 128Mb RAM sticks are PC133 SDRAM made by Micron Technology but I'm sure that they indicate a time response of 20 nsecs??
I wonder whether 20nsecs RAM sticks can handle an AMD CPU upgrade from 1200MHz to 1530MHz ??
Shouldn't this RAM be accessed in the region of 7.5 nsecs??

I also wonder whether the CMOS battery could be failing - my PC is almost 2 & 1/2 yrs old. Not to mention that I have tried to reset the BIOS through the MOBO jumber !

I have also checked the Mobo Capacitors and they look all OK. I have even added a cooler fan on the GeForce2 MX400

The only time a soft or hard "RESTART" works is when the system has been left to cool down for more than 5 minutes and force a restart very soon after switch ON !!

With the CPU temp at around 49 Celsius and the system working for more than 10 minutes a SOFTW or HARDW RESTART will lead to a hangup with a contineous series of BEEPS and a MONITOR detecting no VIDEO !!

One more thing I would like to ask you is whether the upgrading from the thunderbird 1200MHz to the Athlon XP 1800+ palomino requires a better PSU.
The details of mine are listed below:
PSU = 300W
+3.3V +5V +12V -5V -12V +5VSB <--- Voltage O/p
28A 30A 15A 0.3A 0.8A 2.0A <--- current O/p

1. My PC System details.
a) Mobo : MicroStar K7T Turbo (MS6330 Ver 3.0)
b) This Mobo is an AMD CPU platform capable of operating in a range (640 MHz - 1500 MHz).
Chipset the VIA KT133A, System Controller VT8363A (552 pin BGA) and the VT82C686B (352 pin BGA). The first controller manages 3 SDRAM sockets where 168 pin DIMMs are seated (32x8).
c) Total SDRAM memory on board : 384 MB(PC133 SDRAM)
d) Initial CPU : AMD Athlon 1200 MHz (Thunderbird)
e) AWARD BIOS : Initially Ver 3.06
f) 2 HDDS 40GB each(Primary Master&Slave config)
g) HDDs are Western Digiral 40GB
h) DVD Hitachi 7500 (Secondary Slave connection)
i) Display &quot;Vibrant&quot; type.
j) Graphics Card: GeForce2 MX400 using NIVIDIA chip
k) DirectX 8.1 and &quot;full 3D Acceleration installed.
l) OSystem: Win Me. Mobo is capable of ACPI & RAID.


Any help & suggestions will be appreciated.
Thanks for your time. PaulAlexander.

BIOS settings: Freq. multiplier (11.5 to 15) adjustable
Mobo clock frequency =133 MHz.adjustable(133 to 144)
Plug & Play-disabled, Bank Interleave=enabled
Proper AMD CPU frequency is = 1532 MHz.
Vicore CPU Voltage:Initially 1.55 V now 1.65V
card in case the Video Card was running hot!!

Any ideas or thoughts will be very much appreciated.
Thank You.

 

[franklin97355]

If the system was working before the bios upgrade I would suggest putting all the original parts back in the system and see if it still works with them. If not it probably has something to do with the bios. If it works I would then replace one part at a time until all are replaced or it fails again. Your problem may be caused by the heatsink not being attached correctly. AMD processors are very sensitive to heat and get very hot when running.

 

[PaulAlexander]

Hi again,

The system was working OK before the BIOS upgrade (Award 3.06 to Award latest 6.0).
The system as it is now is very stable with the exception of the &quot;RESTART&quot; procedure which can not be accomplished!

I'm wondering whether this upgrade from 1200 to 1530 clock frequency requires a better PSU let's say a 350W one.
I'm not so sure on what are the extra power requirements of the Mobo when upgrading CPUs as above. I know that AMD palomino are consuming more power than thoroubred AMDs!

I like to hear your points of view on this.
When the PC is cold a soft or hardware RESTART is possible but after being ON for some time the RESTART can not enter windows or even POST. Is this related to a Temperature sensetive Voltage failing to trigger the display?
I wonder!!

 

[PaulAlexander]

Hi Guys,

The latest thing I noticed is that, when I disable &quot;The Quick POST&quot; in the BIOS, in order to achieve a thorough check up of the System, the Memory Counter keeps looping back from it's max reading back to the beginning. It's like an endeless counting of the memory without ending.
So the Booting Up process refuses to continue !!!

Only if I re-enable QUICK POST in the BIOS the memory is counted once getting on with the rest of the Checking Routines!!!

Very peculiar! Is it absolutely necessary to specify 384Mb of SDRAM in the advanced settings of the system although memory tests indicate that 3 sticks of 128MB of SDRAM add up to more than 396MB???

I wonder why all this happens? Any ideas please.
Thanks.

 

[BadBigBen]

Hi Paul, I no Guru to PCs, but it sounds to me like one of your RAM sticks is fried... or at best not seated right...

Try reseating the RAM sticks or change them out one at a time to find the culprit...

Hope it Helps...

Greets from Old Europe...

Ben

 

[apex1x]

When you disable the quickboot, the RAM will do a selfcheck a couple times- it is normal. It is not an endless cycle. Usually it will only do it three times.

As for your restart problem, it could be due to a number of things. It may be a power consumption or heat problem, as you have alluded to. The first thing to try would be to replace the power supply and make sure the cpu is making proper contact with the heatsink. If you can understand it, you probably don't.

 

[xomcat]

Pls. post your Temps.& check your CPU mounting (could be reversed).Are you using a good thermal goop or one of AMD's sticky pads? I don't have a lot of confidence in AMD's HSF's either (if it is a temp.issue).

 

[pudda]

As xomcat suggests, it sounds to me also like a heating problem. You didn't say you changed the CPU cooling fan/heat sink so that is probably where the problem lies- between the CPU and heat sink is a very critical contact point. Take a look here at CPU's with &quot;heating&quot; problems.
Is in German but the pics tell the story-

http://www.dau-alarm.de/g_cpu1.html

 

[ceh4702]

Sometimes a motherboard will work with a faster CPU, but it requires a flash of the BIOS to make it work right. Usually the Motherboard manufacturer has some information on the BIOS. If you do not like my post feel free to point out your opinion or my errors.

 

[PaulAlexander]

Hi Guys,

Thanks a lot for your valuable Info.

Latest report on repair approach:

To Ben,

I think that the problem lies either with the SDRAM (bad stick) or with BIOS flash although I had no indication of bad installation during BIOS upgrade.

Thanks to APEx1x,

I wasn't aware that memory testing is performed 3 times before booting continues!! Thanks for letting me know.
So, this is not a problem.
Don't be puzzled about my comprehesnsion of your suggestions, please feel free to advice me as you feel fit!
Apart from a programmer, essentially I'm a Certified hardware man with quite some experience!
Hence there is no way that I would settle on a patch to transfer the heat to the heatsink!!! I have been using heat transfer compounds since the discovery of 2N29559 semiconductors!
I'l be looking into this shortly in case the compound is not evenly laid on the CPU surface when placing the heatsink.

The temp of the Win Xp1800+ (Athlon) as we speak varies from 48 to 52 celsius. Under full load at max reaches 54 celsius pretty rare. The FAN is a GlobalWin large size aluminium heatsink fan capable of 4700 rots/min
Present readind = 4500 r/min

Next step I'm going to pull out all SDRAM sticks one at a time starting from the 3rd slot and keep you posted.
Stick 1 in slot 1 will also be replaced with one of the others.
The +5v line is a 30A line and the 3.3V is capable of 28A the 12v is a 15A line. At present the 12V line shows 11.87V and the 5V line is at 4.95V, tho core voltage(3.3v) is at 3.41V.
If you would like to comment on these voltages I'll be glad to hear your points of view.
Thanks again, it's a very good site and I'm glad being here. PaulAlexander

 

[BadBigBen]

Paul: I am always glad to help if I can help...

I hope you can get the thing sorted out and up-n-running...

Greets

Ben

PS. on the Voltage thing... I have no specs to work with so I can't help... but I read somewhere (but don't quote me on it) that a +/-10% variance of voltage is allowed...

 

[paparazi]

I Know you have stated that your new XP1.8+ is a Palomino core but are you sure? AMD do manufacture 1.8+XP's with the smaller thoroughbred core as well, but these will not work in your motherboard according to MSI.
I had the newer MSI 63080 (VIA KT266a chipset)that also will only run with Palomino.
You seemed too informed to have missed this so forgive me if I am speaking out of turn. Martin
Replying helps further our knowledge, without comment leaves us wondering.

 

[PaulAlexander]

Hi guys,

Latest report on repair approach.

I'm sorry to say but this problem is a difficult one.

1...At first I took the SDRAM sticks one by one out starting from slot 3 down to a minimum 128MB (PC133) in slot 1.
In all cases I tried RESTART which ended with an infinite series of BEEPS!
Then I took off the only SDRAM stick of slot 1 & replaced it with one of the other sticks. The problem didn't go away!!

Next step all 3 SDRAM sticks and the mem slots were cleaned thoroughly using cleaning spray. The SDRAMS were reseated carefully one at a time and with QUICK POST disabled in the BIOS the PC was booted and passed successfully startup memory testing - the size of the memory was recorded correctly.

Conclussion: Unless the RAS & CAS timing of the SDRAM is not good enough with these PC133 sticks the The RAM IS OKEY & KICKING.

2...The next step was to take off the Heatsink & fan mount.
The top of the CPU was cleaned thoroughly, a small layer of heat transfer compound was applied & the Heatsink plus fan were reseated.
This new compound application reduced the CPU temp by about 4-5 Celsius from previous values.
Hence, while before at full load the CPU temp could reach 54 celsius max now is <=50 Celsius.
A welcomed reduction !!!!!
However, I'm still unable to RESTART and the system hangs with those alien BEEPS.

Hence, the RAM is OK and the CPU heat transfer satisfactory but the problem is still around.

Question: Is it the BIOS flash? Is there a bug in it?
I also noticed using Sandra diagnostics that the RAS to CAS timing of the SDRAM-PC133 sticks is roughly 20nsecs.Can this value sustain an Athlon XP1800+ upgrade?
Can I have your comments on this please? Is this timing good enough for an FSB running with 266MHz???

In addition I wonder whether, having downloaded the latest AWARD BIOS Ver 6.0, I could Flash on top of it a previous Version ,perhaps 5.9 or even 3.22 known to be a stable one?? (Note that the original version was the 3.06)

I would be very pleased to hear your ideas & suggestions.
Thank you but the problem is torturing me in my dreams and still persists!!!!!

 

[cadmancan]

I know this may sound stupid and all too obvious but let me try. I have come across a very similar problem before (twice in fact for friends)and the problems in both instances was the video card. One of the two problems in these instances was bad memory on the card. The video would work as far as the POST, but after that it failed. I swapped out the video card and the beeps stopped.

It seems as if you had several problems, a couple of which seemed to have been corrected.

I belive the remaining problem has to be something simple. Sorry if I am too far off base. Godspeed

 

[PaulAlexander]

Hi cadmancan,

Please feel free to suggest your point of view in here.
All your points of view are noted and followed, although my replies are not always on time!

The Video card is next in the check list. As I mentioned in my earlier replies the problem is a Temperature problem. It maybe that some component is overheating unable to sustain the Video display & trigger the Monitor out of stand by!!!
I'll rub a diagnostics test on the Geforce2 Mx/Mx 400 card using the &quot;Ontrack Suite&quot; software and see what I'll come up with.
Since RAM & CPU plus heatsink are OK, I think the list narrows down to 1.BIOS flash (version especially),2. The power supply (300W at present) and 3. The Video card.
I must also mention that yesterday I have experienced quite few Display freezes & Black outs when running APIs.
Thanks for your help & keep posting.

 

[tmCCNA]

Check out this link to be sure that you do have a Palomino Core CPU:

http://www.soyousa.com/kb/kbdesc.php?id=91

I purchased 5 &quot;Palomino&quot; processors from 4 different vendors, and all of them sent me the Thoroughbred Core CPU instead of the Palomino core. Mine would not even POST, no beeps, display or anything. If you install a Thoroughbred CPU, then it can fry if the motherboard only supports the Palomino because it operates at a lower voltage. Travis McGuire

 

[ANFPS26]

pudda, I enjoyed that link. Translating some of The German, it reads:
&quot;> These are all warranty claims. The author describes in sarcastic detail
how
> the owners torched the systems by using pliers on the CPU, applying glue,
> applying too much heat conducting paste (and then washing it off under
> running water), bending pins, overclocking the cpu's, and physically
cutting
> the cpu's open. &quot;It was like this when I bought it, honestly&quot;
>

http://www.dau-alarm.de/g_cpu1.html

Jim

Please come back and let us know if your
problem is fixed and what fixed it!!

 

[DeanBaxx]

I put togeather a new system just the other day, ECS K7S5A Motherboard with an Athlon 1700+ generic PC133 memory ,GeForce 4 MX , and it wouldnt install WindowsXP kept coming up with a critcal error while running setup.drove me crazy,,I installed Windows '98 instead and it worked --,but it ran similar to your systems symtoms,,i got repeating beeps sometimes on start-ups and resets, and every so often it would just restart the PC , just reset ....this Motherboard runs SDram or DDR memory so i took out the PC133 and ran &quot;128mg Crucial DDR&quot; ,ran like a dream..and installed Windows XP ..no more problems...

 

[PaulAlexander]

Yo : paparazi and tmCCNA and all other Contributors.

Thanks guys for your ideas.
At first I doubled checked the CPU to be sure that it is a palomino. Indeed it is so, otherwise due to lower supply rails of a thoroubred I would have already ended up with a single FRIED Chip. The system however a month later since the problem began is very stable when ON and it has been already subjected to some overclocking without problems.
The only one is the RESTART beeping hang up situation.

So SDRAM is OK, CPU OK and certified PALOMINO, Heatsink OK next is to consider DEANBAXX's idea of the VIdeo card.
I would also add the BIOS.
With regard the BIOS is it feasible to reinstall the Backup copy of the original in the Mobo and try to flash again a lower version? Presently I have flashed the Award 6.0 PG version replacing the old Ver 3.06.
I wonder if such a leap forward from 3.06 to Ver 6.0 PG has caused the problem?? Would you like to comment on this?

Furthermore, Can I have please some ideas safety, on how to handle the reinstallation of the Backup copy of the old BIOS to avoid undesirable surprises?? Tho do's & dont's will be appreciated.
Thanks to all of you. PaulAlexander.

 

[PaulAlexander]

Hi guys,

Latest report:

I just have run a Graphics Card thorough test and I think I have come up with something indicating That the VIDEO RAM is malfunctioning -ie failing!.

I have pasted below the diagnostic results for your comments:

Video Adapter 1 [NVIDIA GeForce2 MX/MX 400] (27 seconds)
Started at 11:58:27 PM on 02/16/2003
Ended at 11:58:54 PM on 02/16/2003
Approximate memory (bytes): 32112640
Driver Version: 400
Width: 800
Height: 600
Color Depth: 16
Display Initial Test Message: False
Video RAM Test
Started at 11:58:30 PM on 02/16/2003
Ended at 11:58:41 PM on 02/16/2003
Compare Delay: 0
Error Limit: 10
Change Video Mode: True
This test failed. This may have been due to bad or failing video memory
The diagnostic test reported:
Random value test failed Surface: 0 Pass: 0 Offset: 0000007A Expected: AF9E4154 Actual: AF9E4354
Random value test failed Surface: 0 Pass: 0 Offset: 0000016A Expected: 928FC911 Actual: 928FCB11ƒtÍ&ƒÍ&ƒÍ&ƒ
Random value test failed Surface: 0 Pass: 0 Offset: 000002DA Expected: B390A407 Actual: B390A607ƒtÍ&ƒÍ&ƒÍ&ƒ
Random value test failed Surface: 0 Pass: 0 Offset: 0000035A Expected: BFCB9C6F Actual: BFCB9E6Fƒ´
Random value test failed Surface: 0 Pass: 0 Offset: 0000036A Expected: 1E9EECA5 Actual: 1E9EEEA5
Random value test failed Surface: 0 Pass: 0 Offset: 000005BA Expected: 1A21F502 Actual: 1A21F702
Random value test failed Surface: 0 Pass: 0 Offset: 000007DA Expected: 0A2F01B8 Actual: 0A2F03B8
Random value test failed Surface: 0 Pass: 0 Offset: 0000085A Expected: D74EF5C6 Actual: D74EF7C6
Random value test failed Surface: 0 Pass: 0 Offset: 0000091A Expected: 1E3228AD Actual: 1E322AAD
Random value test failed Surface: 0 Pass: 0 Offset: 00000AEA Expected: 9ADA59F3 Actual: 9ADA5BF3
Polygon Drawing Test
Started at 11:58:41 PM on 02/16/2003
Ended at 11:58:43 PM on 02/16/2003
No problem was found while running this test.
BitBlock Transfer Test
Started at 11:58:43 PM on 02/16/2003
Ended at 11:58:47 PM on 02/16/2003
No problem was found while running this test.
VGA Palette Test
Started at 11:58:47 PM on 02/16/2003
Ended at 11:58:47 PM on 02/16/2003
No problem was found while running this test.
3D Animation Test
Started at 11:58:47 PM on 02/16/2003
Ended at 11:58:54 PM on 02/16/2003
Wider Animation: False
Signature Value: 0
This test failed. This may have been due to
• A DAC (Digital/Analog Converter) problem
• The color guns may be misaligned
• An element in the LCD panel may be burned out
The diagnostic test reported:
Video Group Program Error FILE: ViewPod LINE: 604


At least this is the theory of it, now I must buy a new Video Card install it and let's hope that the problem will go away! I'll let you know after installing the new card.

Meanwhile, If you care to POST some ideas & useful conclussions regarding the above Diagnostic report I'll be most grateful.
Thanks for your efford : PaulAlexander.