I hope these guys can DUMP to Braindumps

[SF18C]

Every so often I get optimistic about something. I hope these guys can actually do something to help with all the braindumps and cheet-sheet types who take cert exams.

http://www.caveon.com/index.htm

I take cert exams because:

1. I like to test myself against external factors. I have always like to put myself against someone else's standards to see how I measure up.
2. I actually do learn things from studying for a cert. Like those items which I may not come into contact with my real world network, but do exist in other networks...ISDN being my latest example.
3. I would like to think the cert means something to those in the industry.

Do I need to take certs, NO - I have a job and a good one at that. I also have my degree, my years of experience and feel pretty comfortable in my environment. Certs do not get me more money, promotions, or any other benefits other than to say "When I took the CCNA a couple of years ago and this is what I learned..." Hell, all the money and time I spent are mine...not my employers. After passing the Cisco remote access exam (which I had to take time off for) my boss was like, "Great, glad you passed, now get back to work!"

I have been working on my CCNP with one more test to go and I can't believe the number of dump site I run across researching actual subjects.

I really am not sure what this company in the URL can do to stop/slow the Braindump, cheetsheet types out there but I think it would be good thing for those of us who do like to take tests if more of the garbage was flushed down the toilet.

What do you think?

SF18C
CCNA, MCSE, A+, N+ & HPCC

"Tis better to die on your feet than live on your knees!"

 

[jrbarnett]

Not having any vendor certifications myself, I may be in the wrong position to give a valid opinion on this, but instead of computer based testing, perhaps a better approach would be to use the skills that somebody would need to know to pass the tests in a real world situation. For example, a Win2K MCSE might be required to set up 2 servers with their own AD schema on a private IP range of their choice, with 3 workstations each with a different OS - say 98SE, 2K Pro and XP Pro, set up IIS on one server and exchange/exchange web access on the other and have one of the workstations access each using IE etc.
The hard drives of the machines would be blank and they would be provided with installation media and license keys as appropriate.

Thus lists of questions and correct answers would be completely useless, as the real world knowledge would be more useful.

John

 

[dilettante]

I had the idea that MS had abandoned "adaptive testing" for their MCSE exams because of the massive failure rate.

Was this just an urban legend?

 

[wacobd]

Well some good news about one of the Brain Dump Sites ... One is closed down (TestKing). Hopefully more will follow soon!

 

[lionelhill]

Although it's really good to see examples like SF18C, I've always felt some of the tests and certification kicking around are a bit of a scam ("You haven't a clue how to evaluate your IT staff? Pay us lots of money and we'll help...&quot
This one sounds a bit like a 2nd-level scam: "OK, so you don't trust the tests that people have been selling for ages. Pay us even more money and we'll make the tests more trustable!"

But having said that it's a serious issue. How can you treat the internet as an information source for students while keeping homework-crib-sites at bay?

 

[dogbert2]

Well,

I don't like braindumps either, and it's a disservice to those students who bust their rear-ends studying or attending classes to pass certification exams the correct way.

I also think the certification bandwagon may go by the wayside eventually, as very few certs in industry command respect (i.e. - if everyone has one, what's special about them)? Items like the CCIE, Juniper, RHCE, where students must pass written exams and pass practical lab exams while being watched by a proctor and being graded on what you have working in your lab exam (and setting a high pass score across the board).

 

[pmonett]

Having passed a number of exams for Lotus Notes development certification (for R3, R4 and R5), I have a solid experience in exam taking.
Although I do not feel that Lotus uses "braindump" technology, I would like to see something more serious that Q&A sessions where the difficulty lies essentially in how you understand the particular wording of the question and how to interpret the peculiar wording of the answers.
In other words, I agree completely with jbarnett. I would like exams to be a hands-on session with an instructor watching. Give a flawed db and 20 minutes to find and correct the bug. Give a network and an hour to set up the server and two clients. Give an hour and a half and two networks like above and ask for fully cross-certified servers and free mail flow. Then ask for firewall restrictions to protect from outside influence and use another PC to test the result.

There are many means of making exams realistic and valid. Unfortunately, they all mean you test one candidate at a time, and the test can last a long time. Which drives the price of the exam up exponentially.
We'd have a real certification, but only one potential candidate in a thousand could actually pay to step up and try. And that does not include the cost of failure.

I don't know what the solution is, but I do not think that braindumps are going to go away any time soon.

Pascal.

 

[lionelhill]

validating exams like that can be a serious issue. If the exam is invigilated with varying rigour in varying places it becomes fairly meaningless. I remember a multiple guess exam I did once where we got a coffee-break in the middle and a chance to discuss the questions. The we were handed back the same answer papers to carry on with part 2. They even made us use pencil to fill them in, jolly handy for those who found out over coffee they'd got something wrong. And for a good ten minutes there was a steady whispered chant of "A...B...A...A...C"
"C?..."
"Yes, C...A..."
from the back of the room somewhere.
It'd be a miracle (or an indication of bad hearing) if half the class didn't hand in identical papers. I was shocked!

I don't think organisations like the one at the top of this thread can do much about this sort of problem.

 

[jrbarnett]

I think something like the UK car driving test would do, where an independent (of training centre and student) qualified examiner will supervise and note down faults etc, as well as mark good parts.

At the end of the test, the examiner would tell the candidate whether they have passed or failed and give them some sort of certificate to prove pass, which would then be sent off to the examining body to get the pass officially registered.
Feedback at the end could be given as well.

John