how's the job market for IT workers...2003?

[Trekkie]

Does anyone see any growth in IT this year? One day, I hear companys laying off tech & nontech workers, and next day I'll hear there increase in growth IT employment. I always hear about some unemployed IT guy working as a pizza delivery man. Is there truth to this story?

Is year going to flat like last year or does anyone see any improvement.

I'm junior network administrator working at place I don't like.

 

[guestgulkan]

I have seen many threads in this forum on this subject.
I am sure they are ex-IT guys delivering pizzas somewhere.
What do you want any of us forum members to say???
I'm sure not many - if any - of us are in the position to affect the IT industry as a whole.

My advice is not to put all your eggs in one (in this case IT) basket. Do you have any other interests, by that I mean are there any other areas you would not mind working in??
If so - I would say do some part-time/spare-time type work in those areas to build up some contacts/qualifications/experience so that if you get the long drop from IT, then the landing may not be so painful.

 

[xutopia]

To make a long story short IT is a new industry. It is normal to have a gold rush effect. At the beggining of the first gold rushes the tools were primitive and the return on investment was scarce. Eventually people realized that not everyone could have gold if there isn't enough to go around.

Some stepped out and went a different route (some decided to become insurance salespeople, bankers etc...) and some decided to stick with it either failing or being successful.

Eventually after all the weeding out, a few people built better tools to find gold and mine the earth. Today to find gold and other minerals we use sonar systems, analyze chemistry of soil and plants and use bulldozers and explosives to mine. Think it used to be done with a shuvel and a pail.

Today we are moving from the shuvel and pail era of the IT world. Some people that were recently in IT saw it wasn't all that it cracked up to be, that you really had to be in there because of passion or talent (or both) not just because it was a good way to make good money. So some become delivery boys, others become salesmen, go back to school or find a job that really reflects their desires in life rather than their desire to make money.

Just like the car, movie, pharmaceutical industries lived through a similar rush, crash and rebirth and we can only expect it to happen in all new industries. IT is not going to be spared and I recommend to anyone that doesn't truly enjoy IT to not jump on the bandwagon now because it won't be easy. We're on the downhill slope before the next steady climb, but it's hard to say how far we'll slide down and how long. And when IT has its rebirth it will most likely not be trimphant and as great as the internet rush. It will be a lot more structured, steady and unfortunatly less exciting.

If you want real excitement in a new industry with all the gold rush effect nanotechnology and genetics are the next big thing. If you prefer something less frivolous become a waiter or a pizza delivery boy, or better yet an accountant or administrative assistant. Their lives are pretty stable!

Gary

http://www.xutopia.com

Haran
==========================

 

[jwenting]

The market right now is extremely difficult, unless you've been in it for 10 years or more you'd better not loose your job.

There are some signs that things may improve late this year or early next year, but there were also signs that things would improve late last year and that didn't happen...

 

[CajunCenturion]

Along the same vein as xutopia has stated, every industry goes thru cycles. There are high periods and low periods, and no industry stays at either extreme for very long. IT is a relatively new industry, having only been around for just under 60 years, with the first dozen (give or take a couple) being primarily for research. Starting in the 60's and extending thru the 70's, it was generally a slow steady growth industry, but one which required a good educational foundation. Beginning in the 80's, and especially in the 90's, it took off reaching a peak in the late 90's, and quantity was the work of the day, and quality suffered. At the time of the peak, everyone wanted to get into IT, jump on the bandwagon and cash in. Now, we are on the downslope, and we were due for it, for several reasons, not the least of which is the talent pool was bloated with diminished quality. A balance adjustment was necessary.

On the other hand, look at the nursing industry - a much older and mature profession. They are on the upswing, salaries are on the rise. Check out the job opportunities for them.

The burning question is of course, when will we reach bottom and being another upturn cycle? I personally think that the rate of descent is already decreasing, and I think the next upswing will become before the end of the year. I expect (and hope) that the upturn will be more of the slow and steady rise, that we first saw 30 to 40 years ago, with talent quality (formal education, experience, and professionalism) being the entry keys, rather than the meteoric upswing of the last 10 years where quantity and warm bodies were the need, thus allowing anyone to get into the mix.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[chiph]

From what I've seen in my area (RTP in North Carolina), if you've got excellent, marketable skills (actual .NET development, experience in commercial software, good reputation, etc), you can get a job in a week or two. If your skills are a commodity (web design, VB, Access, etc), in the telecommunications area (Nortel, Alcatel, etc), or you have a bad "rep", then you'll have a tougher time.

There was a story in the paper last Sunday about how a guy who used to be in telecom started his own business installing fences, and seems to be doing OK.

Chip H.

 

[xutopia]

chiph,

sound like you read an article funded by Microsoft .NET evangelist! LOL

Gary

http://www.xutopia.com

Haran
==========================

 

[dogbert2]

As a I.T. person who will reach 21 years of employment in about one month, the prospects for jobs will be soft through the remainder of 2003. I know people who are IS/IT/CS majors who haven't found employment in-field (it's estimated that many college grads right now aren't working in field due to the stagnant economy).

I agree with Cajun, a lot of people got into this field thinking 'well, I can do this...' However, they forgot the most important thing, I.T. by it's very nature is tech. oriented, and requires hours of study and hard work just to keep current (a lot of students groan when I mention this), but it's true.

I think once the shakeout is complete (probably by the end of 2003), things will start to bounce back, but we will never go back to the dot-com days (which, IMO, started this mess in the first place).

 

[AIXSPadmin]

Don't ask anyone here "Does anyone see any growth in IT this year?" The best thing you could do to answer this question is to look at economic forecasts by the Dept of Labor or the Federal Reserve. Also, you have to look at the market in your area which is different than the country as a whole.

Are there people underemployed? Yes. This was a fact before this economic stagnation happened. The state capitol in my state is about 40% government employees; state, local, fed, and the city has always had a cronic underemployed population, but the city is growing.

As far as you being a junior network admin, there seems to be a glut anywhere for them and would make your job harder to attain a position against more senior people, but they may want more pay, so that is in your favor. You may have better customer skills than someone else, so that could work for you. If you are unhappy, apply for jobs, you may get them. You won't unless you try.

The key is your skills and whether you will move. I was laid off at a Fortune 500 company as a Unix admin and had worked there a few years. Before that had years doing Unix and networking, programming, etc. I took some time off and relaxed. When I did start looking, it took me 1 week to find a job as a Unix admin with the same pay I had before. But I have to move a couple of hours away. My ultimate goal is to move back to the area where I am originally from to be closer to family and friends. To do this, I may open my own business or buy an established business that is for sell in the area. This would probably mean getting out of IT, but getting back to my home area (rural) is my goal. This new job will allow me to save money and pave the way to go back. That is what I am looking at it for. I may be the fence company owner in a few years - but I will be happy being back to my true home!

 

[Tarwn]

xutopia: concerning chiph's article, try doing a job search for that area. Depressing, but true, if you weed out the ad's asking for wierd stuff (like 10 years of Java experience...) you end up with a great deal of .Net ad's, a good number of AS/400 ad's (I've seen those growing lately), a few web development ad's without .Net in them (mostly ASP, one or two php, almost always with something like Tivoli, etc required).

then again, last time I drove through Raleigh there were still a great deal of brand new empty buildings.

 

[xutopia]

Tarwn,

I know it's depressing isn't it? Also despressing is companies asking for someone with 5 years experience with .NET!

Gary

http://www.xutopia.com

Haran
==========================

 

[dilettante]

Not as depressing as the people who hired "Java" experts, only to find all they actually knew was some Javascript!

 

[chiph]

sound like you read an article funded by Microsoft .NET evangelist! LOL

xutopia -
Yeah, I'm big on .NET, and used that as an example. Same applies with J2EE - there are a number of companies who want talent with Java in this area.

But like Tarwn was saying, what I'm seeing in the paper is the "oddball" highly-specialized stuff, like AS/400, Mapics, medical packages, and other focused areas. There is indeed a lot of empty commercial real estate in the area, and it will get worse -- Progress Energy is building a 26-story building to centralize their employees who are currently scattered around the downtown area. When it opens, it will raise the vacancy rate even higher.

I think what a lot of companies are doing is being more selective about their hiring. Before, they were happy to get a warm body who could learn the skills needed for the job. Now, they won't hire unless the candidate already has the needed skills.

The boom attracted a lot of scam artists, incompetents, and just plain awful people. Some type of cleansing was desperately needed, although there is still a lot of corruption and fraud.

Wired magazine reported a few years ago that a dot-com CEO was 30-times more likely to have a felony on their record than the CEOs at Fortune-1000 companies. Which pretty much describes what you were saying, Chris ;-)

Chip H.

 

[Tarwn]

Speaking of progress energy, they are building a new building because NCNG is going their own direction again. The current building is already being emptied out and they have been moving floors around recently (which sucks when your card only works on one floor and you forget to ask which floor they've moved certain people to since the last visit).

x: Heh, I know. Maybe one of the biggest changes that will hit the IT market (hopefully) will be hiring HR people that know something about IT...oh wait, they already do, only they give em jobs as our coworkers instead of in HR...darnit

all: There is to much ignorance from other sectoprs as to just what it is we do. The fears stem from not understandaing what is looming on the horizon (y2k) and the disdain stems from that wonderful thought process:
"Everything has run fine for the past year, why do we need IT people?" And "The server crashed, the IT must not be doing their jobs"

To many hr and management types don't understand enough about our field, and hopefully has technology becomes more prevalent in the workplace and as people get used to that tech in the workplace this will start to change.

-Tarwn

 

[jwenting]

It's back to the situation of 10 years ago, when companies were asking for "25 year old university graduate with minimum of 10 years relevant experience." except this time they're indeed asking 10+ years Java and/or 5+ years .NET.

Worst I saw recently asked for 10 years J2EE AND 10 years .NET as well as 10 years experience with Windows 2000 advanced server >:-<

 

[manarth]

plus a diploma in time travel

<marc> i wonder what will happen if i press this...[ul][li]please give feedback on what works / what doesn't[/li][li]need some help? how to get a better answer: faq581-3339[/li][/ul]

 

[chiph]

Worst I saw recently asked for 10 years J2EE AND 10 years .NET as well as 10 years experience with Windows 2000 advanced server

Often a company is required to publicly post a job opening because of some legal requirement. So you'll sometimes see these ludicrous ads that no one could possibly meet -- the company often already knows who they will hire for the position. Or sometimes they've already filled it (although they're not supposed to do things in that order!)

Chip H.

 

[BJCooperIT]

Is the job market on the upswing?

http://jobsearch.monster.com/getjob...o=1&col=dltci&cy=&brd=1,1862,1863&lid=&fn=&q=

Has anyone else observed this kind of optimism?

select * from Life where Brain is not null

Consultant/Custom Forms & PL/SQL - Oracle 8.1.7 - Windows 2000
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[AIXSPadmin]

BJC,

I read the post they have on Monster and the first thing I noticed was this snippet, &quot;...new projects have aloud (sic) us to open ...&quot; 1

They should do more proof-reading of their posts. To paraphrase, they have new projects that are LOUD and open their eyes. Probably due to the decibel level or intensity of their shouting!

In my city I live (750,000 pop.) there seems to be an opening up of jobs, according to a few contract agencies that I talked to.

However, until businesses begin to invest again, and manufacturing picks up full-swing, the economic climate won't begin a surging upswing. The Fed still predicts a modest growth of around 2.5% for the year, the last I read, and it takes more growth than 2.5% to have economic expansion.

 

[chiph]

Ahhh, marketing!!


But it is nice to see something where 6 different companies are looking to hire.

Chip H.