How long B 4 I you won't look stupid

[shagymoe]

Hey all,

I have been studying Java for about three weeks and I have written a few programs and made it a good way through Sun's tutorial and most of the way through this one

http://www.ibiblio.org/javafaq/javatutorial.html

I typically have about 3-4 hours each weekday to study. I was wondering how long it might be before my code won't suck/get my laughed at by experienced developers. Granted this depends on intelligence etc... but what I'm asking is for a reasonably intelligent person (B.S. in Mech. Eng.) how long should it take? I'm not asking so I can give up if it takes too long or something, I'm just curious.

For being a newbie, I am doing ok. The best program I've written is something of a lottery tool. (Yes, I know....The lottery is a tax on the stupid/bad at math) Anyway, it will return every possible combination of up to 12 numbers of your choosing (could be any number up to 49 if I so desired, but I chose 12 since more than that would amount to >$10k in lottery tickets and 12 numbers is about $950) in six digit increments....your typical state lottery. After timing it accurately, I found that it takes 9 minutes to create all 13.9 million possibilities and write it to a 244MB text file. Well, this is just extraneous info, but simple math programs aren't that big of a deal, but it shows me that I'm on track.

Anyway, the real question is how long. Or maybe just tell me what your experience has been and how long it took you. I am teaching myself from the internet so far, but may buy a book when the internet has given all I can take. Definitely no class work though...no time. My goal is to get some side work as a jr programmer or small programs...something that will actually generate some supplemental income. So maybe thats the real question.....hong long till someone will actually pay me? lol
But I'm more interested in your experiences.

 

[pipk]

You can spend years and years learning any language you like, but what counts is can you cut it in a commercial environment? It is a whole different ball game when you have to produce stuff that people are gonna use, or that calcuates values that will provide info for the top decision makers.

I have been a programmer for about 5 years and have recently taken a year out to study a masters, i would say a months commercial exposure with a language is good for several months academic study in the class room. There is something about it being part of your job thyat makes you learn a lot more quickly. Companies know this and they will not want to employ anyone, unless as a trainee, without real world experience.

So as for how long it will take, who knows in academia, but in a commercial environment I have seen people go from novices to fairly decent programmers within three to six months. As for hobbyists - hard to say as there are different motivations.
Take me, I have been learning Java on and off for the past 9 months, and would consider myself to be fairly crap still. The good thing about Java though is that you can do more with fairly basic skills.

Hope this helps.

 

[whodaman]

I would say that it would also depend on how good your back ground in programing is. If you have known languages like C++ and such, you mind find Java a lot easier to learn. But if you are starting from scratch... then it may take some time to get going. From the looks of it, it seems that you have gotten the basics of programing done such as FOR loops, WHILE, IF and such things like that. From there you will start to implement that to Java and putting the calcuations into a GUI. From there, you can start to sell your products....

On the other hand, it depends how lucky you are in the job market. If companies don't think you are good enough, they probally won't hire you. Seeing that they are a lot companies that create these personal programs for companies... it would be hard to enter this market as a freelance programer.

I'm not discourageing you from learning this language. It may become helpful in the near future. I give props to you for pushing yourself into learning this langauge! : )

best of luck

 

[LittleWing]

don't worry about it is what i say. if ur coming from a non computing backround and this is your first step into OO stuff, you will get the hang of it sooner rather than later. its not difficult. I am rather worried that you are consious about being laughed at by senior developers. what you have to understand is once the code works and doesn't take all year to execute, follows the coding standards and is well documented, it shouldn't matter. if you sernior developers are laughing at your code because they could write the whole thing in one line, that doesn't say a whole lot about them. I, as a senior developer have had many occasions where i came across code that just made me laugh but i never done in a developers face. The best piece of advice i can offer u is this, the only way to learn is to make mistakes. you'll learn why things don't work and you wont do it again.

so get back studing and if the senior developers give u any grief, give 'em the 2 fingers salute

 

[shagymoe]

I'm not actually getting laughed at yet... I work as a System Administrator at a small division of a large company. My job does not require coding, but I have a lot of free time on my hands (if I do my job well that is). And I decided, after much investigation, that I want to learn Java and Oracle. Well, I kinda have to learn Oracle, since I support it, but Java is strictly my own thing.

I'm looking to make some money on the side either coding in Java or working with Oracle or both. I'm not sure at what point I can start to try to find part-time work coding or how to go about getting this kind of work, since most employers want you to be onsite and I can only telecommute....maybe go to the site once a week or so.

I really like Java so far, and I would like to succeed at it both in ability and monetarily.

 

[LittleWing]

to be honest, if its money on the side your looking for, concentrate on Oracle and have java as a secondary tool in your bat-belt!! More money in the DBA stuff

 

[meadandale]

Learning a language is only part of becoming a decent programmer. A strong knowledge of systems (at the hardware and software level) as well as a knowledge of data structures and algorithms are all important to become a proficient programmer.

If you lack this basic knowledge, you may be able to write simple code but chances are it won't be efficient or elegant and complicated programs requiring structures such as hashtables and trees will elude you.

Regards,

Charles

 

[pipk]

plus, i don't know what you mean by "on the side" but if you mean doing part time paid work, i don't think it is a realistic objective. Coding tends to be an all or nothing thing, very few companies (if any) will be willing to take on a developer who can only spend afew hours a week working on stuff, no matter what the priority is.

even freelancing at those hours will be difficult, and companies will not take you on as a freelancer without experience unless you are S**T hot.

If you are really serious about it, you need to get into a job where you are going to be crosstrained (or developed) into the skill you want. This just requires the right job to come along at the right time. Good luck, it can happen.

 

[shagymoe]

Well, by "on-the-side" I mean that, as I said before, I have about 3 to 4 hours of freetime everyday. Some days none, some days 9. It just depends. The nature of my current position is that if I stay on top of things, it all runs smoothly and I just put out the occasional fire. In between fires, maintenance, and improvements, I have a lot of time. So basically, I can code at work even though it isn't necessarily related to my job. However, it will most likely help me do my job at some point.

If I needed to spend time working on it at home, I could do this also, but wouldn't want to spend more than 5-10 hours a week doing at home work.

Maybe Java should stay a "for fun" thing and I should focus on Oracle and database stuff for "on-the-side" work. I think a lot of DBA work can be done remotely.

I guess I had gotten the impression that programming would be the best bet because you can do it anywhere...and a lot of programmers do exactly that. They sit at home and code at their leisure. I just need something that will let me capitalize on my spare time whether it is at work or home.

I must append to this that I would not let side work interfere with my real job. I would leave it for home if I had to.

 

[pipk]

I think its good that you are so motivated to learn by yourself. I personally find it very difficult unless I have an actual purpose to pursue - hence why I took a year out to study for an MSc - I knew it was the only way to put myself under enough pressure to learn. As a result I have a final project to submit which is a scuba diving logging and simulation system written in Java. If it doesn't get done I fail.

I tried to learn Java about 2 years ago, from a book, but lacked enoygh motivation to see it through. Sounds to me as though you have what I need.

All the best and I hope it goes well.

On a good note, certainly this is the case in the UK, some companies will give you a chance even with as little as 6 months commercial experience in Java. It is still a hot skill, for the time being. Just wait for the right chance. It will come, you just have to be patient.