How do you Un-Fib? 7

[CasperTFG]

I had a recent event where I had to tell a little fib.

I was approached with an opportunity to join a really great company, this would be my dream employer. But right now I don't have the skills they require, Though I am enrolled in a few courses that end mid way through next year that would give me those skills.

So I told a little fib that right now I was not looking for a position as I was leading a team in a big project that I needed to see through. But that I would be looking for a new position mid way through next year.

Not that much of a fib (I am always leading some project or another but nothing that would keep me from leaving). I just did not want to be denied because my skills were not where they needed them.

Anyway now is where the fib has come back to bite me. I saw a recent job posting for the same "dream employer" and they are looking to fill a position with all of the skills I already have.

How do I un-fib this one... I would love to apply for that position as my foot in the door, so that I could still learn and study and eventually move to the position I want.

Casper

There is room for all of gods creatures, "Right Beside the Mashed Potatoes".

 

[aquias]

Tell them the truth?

Explain the situation that you didn't have the skills they required but did not want to be discounted for future positions. Will they like that they were lied to? Not really...but coming clean is the best thing to do in this instance.

Why? Because they, of course, are going to want to know about the "Big Project" that you were working on and what happened with it.

 

[paterson]

Keep lying? "my big project just got axed?" hahaha.

I agree with aquias. Either that or wait until you have the other skills and wait for a posting then. Sounds like a company to wait for.

 

[kHz]

...denied because my skills were not where they needed them.

Employers will hire an someone who they believe has potential. If you wouldn't have lied maybe they would have considered you for the position even though you didn't have the exact skills you thought they wanted.

And I am sorry, taking a class or two in the skills they want doesn't give you the skills they want. Only time and experience will give you those skills.

I don't see anyway other than telling them the truth. You could lie and say the project finished early or it didn't get anymore funding, or whatever other lie. But that wouldn't do you any good. And the truth will make them think you lied to them the first time (and you did).

Either tell the truth and accept the consequences or forget about that employer for a year or two.

 

[JimmyZ1]

lie till you die, everyone else does

 

[DrJavaJoe]

Don't say anything about it unless it comes up and if it does you could say something like:

"Well after thinking about it a little more I see no reason why with proper notice and a few Saturday visits that another member cannot take over as project lead. I have a good relationship with the managment and staff and they know they could call me any evening for advice. If I decide to take this position would it be a problem if I gave a little more notice than the standard two weeks? Excellent, could you tell me a little more about the benefits, blah, blah, blah..."

Obviously in your own words.






Two strings walk into a bar. The first string says to the bartender: 'Bartender, I'll have a beer. u.5n$x5t?*&4ru!2[sACC~ErJ'. The second string says: 'Pardon my friend, he isn't NULL terminated'.

 

[Thadeus]

I second DrJavaJoe on this one. Star for you DJJ

~Thadeus

 

[kHz]

The question: Would you as the hiring manager want an individual who has done what was posed in the original thread? And then have them continue to lie in order to obtain employment with your company?

 

[BJCooperIT]

If asked, speak this truth:

"The status of my project is such that I can leave it, with a clear conscience, in capable hands."

^{Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw}
Consultant Developer/Analyst Oracle, Forms, Reports & PL/SQL (Windows)
My website: Emu Products Plus

 

[CasperTFG]

Dr Java you are so right, that sounded perfect and very respectable.

The truth is, I am in the middle of a project that will only be completed by the summer next year. The fib (lie is such a dirty word) I said was that I wanted to see it through to completion.

Though that is not really a fib, I never like to burn bridges and would hope I could wait until it was completed.

But if it meant that I could get in to this company I would be willing to leave them in the middle of it.

I guess the real truth is I would be willing to leave in the middle of this project as long as the position was worth it.

Casper

There is room for all of gods creatures, "Right Beside the Mashed Potatoes".

 

[kHz]

You're beginning to believe your own lies. Hopefully the company will realize you lack any values and that you are a fraud. Keep compounding the lies and they will eventually catch up with you because you won't be able to keep them straight.

You should be enrolled in ethics courses because you clearly lack any quality characteristics.

 

[CasperTFG]

How do you mark something as an un-valuable post. Thanks for your total lack of assistance kHz.

I am not beleiving my own lies. As I said they are not lies I do have a project I am in the middle of it and I would like to see it through. I have been on the project for over a year now, would love to see it completed.

When the opportunity was presented to me at the time I did not want to submit my application because I did not see that I had the skills for it. So instead of telling them I am not a qualified employee I told them the other reason I would not apply.

However now that there is a position open there that I would like to persue and could most probably land. I now feel it is more worthwhile to leave this project to persue that.



Casper

There is room for all of gods creatures, "Right Beside the Mashed Potatoes".

 

[EBGreen]

First, you came to an ethics forum looking for opinions. While kHz's opinion is blunt, it is just as valid as anyone else's. YOu need to honestly ask yourself "If I had have already had the skills that I am getting training for, would I have taken the originally offered position?". If the answer to that question is yes (as your original post would lead me to believe), then telling the prospective employer that you cannot take the position due to a project that you are working on is a lie. Pure and simple.

[red]"... isn't sanity really just a one trick pony anyway?! I mean, all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you are good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit!" - The Tick[/red]

 

[EBGreen]

Oops...wrong forum. Please change:

First, you came to an ethics forum looking for opinions.

To:

First, you came to a forum looking for opinions.

Otherwise, I stand by the comment as posted.

[red]"... isn't sanity really just a one trick pony anyway?! I mean, all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you are good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit!" - The Tick[/red]

 

[CasperTFG]

True I should be able to take the good, bad and ugly.

Opinion heard and trashed... I guess that is the other thing about forums. You ahve to take what you need from them and forget the rest.

Casper

There is room for all of gods creatures, "Right Beside the Mashed Potatoes".

 

[LadySlinger]

Would you know if the person that's hiring is the same person that called you? Because then the question would probably not get brought up, depending on the size of the company and how long ago you told your fib. Could be also that you weren't the only approached for the previous opportunity. They may have approached 10 people or more and might not remember.

Also, don't mind the posts that trash you. While your question is ethics-related, the truth of the matter is that not all of us are perfect and I can name probably 10 people that I know that did and said what they could to get the job they wanted. Others have lied and blamed others to keep their job.
It's not pretty in the job market right now. Apply for this job that you feel confident in doing, then if you get the job, it's much easier to move around in the company rather then applying for a job that you meet based on classes. Hiring Personal are looking for real life experience, not classroom simulation.

 

[kHz]

In basic training I (and about 20 others) were using phone privileges before our time (5 minutes early) and when the TI came around everyone scattered. Later when he had everyone in formation he asked who was using the phones. Me and only two others (I was the first to step forward) acknowledged the infraction. Nobody else came forward (probably because they were scared, or whatever). We were confined to the dorms for the weeked.

I don't believe you possess that integrity.

And gathering opinions then filtering them to find those that say what you want to hear is pointless. That would be like reading Consumer Reports to find the product you want to buy and disregarding all the negatives and focusing only on the positives. Then come to the conclusion that it is a great product because you want it. While the report states it is the worst product and most defective of all comparable products. Why even read the report to begin with?

Or doing a research project and setting out to prove your hypothesis is true. (A big no-no).

 

[aquias]

I don't always agree with kHz, nor do I always agree with the "blunt" approach. However, in this a valid point has been made.

It is your choice on how to move forward from here. But as the question was originally posed it seems that you are adjusting the situation to fit the answer you like the best.

Now, right or wrong, meh...that's not up to me to say. I've told my lies and made my mistakes but to discount what is being said here, is wrong. Part of the "joy" of these forums are the fact that people will call you on something and point out our own faults to us.

Just because you don't like what was said or HOW it was said, don't dismiss it.

 

[CasperTFG]

Hey Lady Slinger, the person that I told this "lie" to has nothing to do with Hiring me. The person is an old College aquantance that happens to work for this company. We were chatting he said forward your resume they are hiring. The only thing that affects him is a $500 bonus that he will get if they hire me.

Aquias and kHz, I am not totally discounting what kHz said, his first post here was constructive, he called me on it (a lie is a lie) and advised that I come clean. His second post had absolutley no value what so ever. That is what I let in one ear and out the other.

If someone calls me a piece of poop and I know that I am not brown, I don't smell and I did not come out of a rectum, I can discount that as someone just name calling. kHz said that I have no moral Ethics. He knows nothing of me but what was said here.

So I could go hide my head in the sand, or realize that he is just like the bully calling me a piece of poop. Un-educated about the subject in which he is talking about (that subject being me). And so he is just name calling. If he was my mother or wife calling me un-ethical I would take that as serious, because that is someone who knows the subject of which they speak.

I did take it into consideration that I could come clean to this person, which would probably confuse him more than anything. Not like he would really care, he is not even someone I would work directly with.

Casper

There is room for all of gods creatures, "Right Beside the Mashed Potatoes".

 

[LadySlinger]

I thought kHz's second post was informative and more tasteful then his first. He came clean to his TI along with two others about what they had been doing when approached. The others that didn't come clean and kept their mouth shut so they got punished for it.
I don't always agree with the blunt posts either, but he's obviously someone who see things as either one or the other. I have seen his other posts, and take more as you've just been initiated into Tek-Tips.com.

Moral of the story though, just like those books you're mom read to you as a kid; you lie and you will pay the consequences for it.