How do you independent phone guys bill for the IP Office product?? Looking for some opinions

[Cat5Jive]

Hi all,

As a small interconnect moving into the IP Office world from planet Norstar, I am curious to see if anyone would like to chat with how they have dealt will follow up programming time on the IP Office. Typically when we quote a job for Norstar or anything else, we include a few hours of "aftercare" to come back in and tweak the user experience, change names, change how the sets ring, etc. While the IPO and Norstar are obviously apples and oranges, I find with every IP Office installation there is always much more time spent on the back end of the installation troubleshooting some bugs or issues that are beyond what was quoted in the aftercare. For example, I'm back at a customer site this evening for the 3rd or 4th time, this time troubleshooting why SMTP is not sending out voicemail via email. On 8.1.43, using monitor, the system is just not doing it. Reboot and it works fine for awhile, then stops. I've got 9508 sets shouting PLEASE WAIT at my customer on a daily basis. So here I am, 5:30PM in an empty office spending my evening looking at an upgrade bar to 8.1.57 instead of spending my time at home with my family. And heres the kicker... how can i be justifying another 4 hours of labour time to my customer to upgrade a broken system that should have been working in the first place? With a warranty on a product, where do you folks stop with the free go-backs to fix all the little bugs and start back in with the regular billing to fix inherent issues with the product?

Thanks for your advice!

 

[phoneguy610]

it kind of comes with the territory.. I also migrated from Nortel to Avaya. and I never thought id say it but even our hosted product is much more stable then the ipo recently.

Avaya definitely needs to get their game together.

it is a very good product though and I have found that working a little more into the initial labor cost is generally not an issue.

even when we were a Nortel shop we worked in a few extra hours of "sh*t happens" time.

every system is going to have some quirks I think Avaya is just going through some growing pains rushing software out before it is fully tested.

ddcommllc.com
Avaya/Toshiba/SyntelSolutions

ACIS

"Will work for stars

 

[phoneguy610]

I am pretty sure the newer release of 8.1 are stable though

I know the 9508 issue was fixed as well as a bunch of others



ddcommllc.com
Avaya/Toshiba/SyntelSolutions

ACIS

"Will work for stars

 

[CptIPO]

The new version 8.1.67 I am finding super stable. Also 8.0.56 seems really stable so far.

ACIS - Avaya Certified Implementation Specialist
ACSS - Avaya Certified Support Specialist
APSS - Avaya Professional Sales Specialist
Yes we have VoIP in Cape Town

 

[tlpeter]

You guys are right about the current issues.
But every system has bugs but these firmware issues are annoying.
What we do is prepare the system at the office.
The customer fills in a sheet how the system must be programmed (groups users cli ddi etc)
If it is a bigger system (20 phones or more) then there is after care, otherwise support takes over this after care.
Phone that keep show "keep waiting" are replaced by newer phones.
Be sure you have the newest combocards and be sure you try a couple of reboots at the office because i can remember issues with 95xx phones showing "please wait" after a reboot.
I always power up an IPO and work on it the next day.
But i have only seen that the power supply failed on the first day on an IPOv1


BAZINGA!

I'm not insane, my mother had me tested!

 

[Westi]

tlpeter, Nortel guys are spoiled (don't mean that in a negative way guys) by a really stable and reliable product line because Nortel actually tested their systems to the core before sending them out to the customers.
Avaya tests on the bench and if all seems good they send them out and let the customers and BP's detect the bugs. I think that their test program needs an overhaul because there are bugs from old releases coming up sometimes and that should not be the case.
Having said that, you sell the system that means you are responsible for the bugs you sell along with it. Avaya should be covering the cost of it but then they would be bankrupt in a month so you need to make sure that you estimate the time for after care properly or work it into your margin when you sell the system. Either one is no good because the guy next door will sell it for cost and hope to get the money when he goes and maintain or services the system. Had customers buy their stuff online and just wanted it installed and then complaining when there are bugs and I charged them for the labour to upgrade and fix it.

Joe W.

FHandw, ACSS (SME), ACIS (SME)

http://convergednetworks.ca

Give a tech a solution and he will be back tomorrow to ask you the next question, teach a tech how to read the manual and he will be able to solve the problems for a life time.

 

[Cat5Jive]

Great thoughts guys, thanks for the input. It is interesting to hear how others deal with these challenges, i'm sure many of you work in a bit of a vacuum much like myself, without the benefit of colleagues to bounce some of these ideas off. We operate in much the same way as tlpeter, in that we preprogram as much as the system as possible on the bench before cut over day at the customer site. I guess the best option is to just tack on some additional labour time up front to deal with the issues and hope you don't get too screwed over on the deal at the end of the day. I agree with Westi in that Nortel installers truly were/are "spoiled" with such a solid product, especially on the CICS/MICS side of things. We had this discussion this morning in that modern phone systems are truly much more computer/server than simple phone system, and that bugs and other issues are just going to be a fact of life from here on out. Good to hear phoneguy610 talk about his belief in the IP Office as a great product, despite some of the annoying bugs that crop up. I agree with this assessment... time to change up how we do business just a little bit. Now if customers can just remember the line on the contract that says "Payment due on installation" things would be great...

 

[tlpeter]

Change it to the way the customers pay.
We always (common over here) charge a certain amount up front (40% or so) and the rest when it is done.


BAZINGA!

I'm not insane, my mother had me tested!

 

[Cat5Jive]

@tlpeter haha yeah. It usually works out fine that way but sometimes people lose their chequebooks as we all know. Had a boilermaker tell me once there are 4 parts to doing business: "you call, I come, I work, you pay... and there is never any problem with the first 3 parts!"

 

[tlpeter]

Then you must be sure that the first part covers all the equipment
They only loss then will be the hours.


BAZINGA!

I'm not insane, my mother had me tested!