Hosted ("Cloud-based") vs Onsite Phone Systems - your opinions Please! 6

[x11dude]

Hi all,

I've been doing some searches and finding surprisingly few recent discussions on this.

I've always heard Hosted phone systems are less reliable and more expensive (in the long run) than onsite systems.

But the salespeople have been working upper management aggressively! Of course they have a comeback for everything (as long as they get their commission.)

We have about 50 sets (currently on Nortel Meridian and Meridian Mail). Fewer than 6 analog lines. 12 trunks on 3 T1's. We have pretty good infrastructure; QoS switches with PoE; All phones are on traditional copper - although cat5e is available to all offices.

I'd think an onsite solution would be preferable; your opinions please!

Thanks!

 

[IPGuru]

Personally I would go with an on-site solution in this case.

where I see hosted a most suitable is for organisations that have a loot of small branches, for example shop chains who could have 100's of branches but only 3 o4 4 extns at each site.

Hosted for a large site requires a v good broadband service (a standard ADSL max circuit is good for about 5 phones)

1 additional advantage of an on-site solution is if you find the quality of service you are receiving in not up to standard it is pretty easy to change maintainer, with a hosted solution you are locked in to whoever you choose

I do not Have A.D.D. im just easily, Hey look a Squirrel!

 

[mattKnight]

>Hosted for a large site requires a v good broadband service (a standard ADSL max circuit is good for about 5 phones)

With any hosted solution, the WAN link to them is the weak link.

In the UK, you cannot get a broadband connection that has any level of SLA - that means if your connection breaks or slows down, your BB supplier is under no pressure to get the connection working (I have seen them take weeks...)
Putting your telephone service at the end of a network connection like this (i.e. has no SLA) is, IMHO, a poor idea.

Personally, I would really suggest that you get (either from your hosted suppler or elsewhere) a (or preferably 2) point to point circuit (that means you do not need QoS) with an SLA for fix to match your company's tolerance for loss of telephones. These need to be adequately sized for the number of concurrent calls that you expect at a G711 codec (and check that your supplier doesn't limit you to G729)

See how this costs in to the proposal you have and see if the figues stack up then - because unless you can prove to your bosses that this solution will cost more in the long run, the decision will be taken out of your hands



Take Care

Matt
I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone.
My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone.

 

[DigitelD]

We have tested the hosted solution in our office. We are in the process of replacing it. It may be good for some but I hate it.

SHK Certified (School of Hard Knocks)
NCSS, ATSP/IP

 

[phoneguy610]

Bandwith would definitely be the most obvious issue.

Also, for that size of a company reliability and the option for your IT person to try and manage the system is out of the question for a hosted solution.

Price: We just costed out a job with an onsite system for 42 phones and we are up against a hosted solution.

They will pay the same a month with either solution, but in 5 years they will own everything and the payments will stop. With the hosted solution, 5 years down the road they own nothing, not even the phones. Just wasted money every month

I could go on let me know

...did i mention that most of the hosted providers are not phone guys? that is a huge thing to look at

 

[x11dude]

Great feedback, many thanks to all!

Our bandwidth is not great - 3 T1s (4.5mb total). So I guess our WAN link is pretty weak at best...

Your points are well taken. I am particularly worried that our T1 provider would also be the hosted PBX maintainer (as IPGuru mentions). What if we were able to score a fiber or cable ISP provider in the future - we'd be locked in to these feeble T1s.

We have one premise provider who'd be willing to sell us secondhand phone sets at 50%-plus savings. It could be other onsite providers might compete. I just don't see how hosted can compete.

And some phone sets (NEC comes to mind) have systems that work on either traditional twisted pair or cat5e. Pretty flexible!

I've wanted to avoid the RFP process but I see no other way to keep the vultures at bay...

Thanks again all!
-x11dude

 

[Delster]

I used to sell phone systems before i moved into technical side. For this size the cheapest solution is on site. Hosted effectivly gives you one line per person which sounds like over kill for your needs.

Re the T1's If your only getting 4.5mbps over 3 of them I would sugest changing providers or at least haveing a word about this with your current one. My home BB service is 30mbps ADSL

Re the provider not being obligated to get a move on to repair circuits that go down. You need to get this built into the contract and may find it's already in there. Worth checking and make sure it's in the contract come renewal time.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
umm,it IS supposed to do that, right??

 

[x11dude]

Hey there Delster - thanks for your feedback.

Our building is in an older area where we've been limited as to what services can be brought in.

I'm (finally) starting to learn about EoC (Ethernet over Copper) services. 10mbps over traditional twisted pair, from what I'm reading. This sounds VERY interesting! Have you had any experience with these?

Don't worry - if we go hosted (which I doubt) - we'll have an SLA in the contract about availability. From everything I'm gathering - I'll push for a premise solution.

Thanks!
-x11dude

 

[jeffmoss26]

I've worked on them in small environments and they are okay at best. A fast and reliable internet connection is a must. Without any physical equipment on site besides phones, there is no easy way to get things like overhead paging to work, though.

jeff moss

 

[doktor]

I would recommend a single PBX on-site, as you would have the possibility to choose your CO line provider (supplier of public lines). If you choose the hosted option, you will be tied more up to the provider of the hosted solution.
If you, anyway, choose the hosted solution, you will (maybe) not have to worry about the maintenance of CPE (Customer Placed Equipment) and to power it.
I still would prefer the on-site PBX (telephone system), but it could also be a matter of economy.

///doktor

http://www.kandu.dk/spg153996.aspx

 

[x11dude]

Hi Doktor - I've reached the same conclusion - will probably talk with Cisco, NEC and Avaya (IP Office) vendors. NEC and Avaya have phones that support both cat5 and traditional twisted pair - an advantage for our older site.

Have you had experience with any of the "Ethernet Over Copper" offerings - or are you lucky enough to have fiber or other (fast) cabling into your facility?

 

[x11dude]

Jeff! Great point - about the overhead paging. I need that and want that!!! With hosted there's no way?

 

[doktor]

You could also check out the Aatra (former Ericsson (///)) MX-ONE product that has all the good facilities known from your PBX of today. MX-ONE is SIP enabled but can run also with traditionally 2 wire cabling. A state of the art Voicemail (OneBox) and Presence (availability-status) - even on GSM mobile phones is todays "hit". Check out at

http://www.aastra.com

///doktor

http://www.kandu.dk/spg153996.aspx

 

[phoneguy610]

There is a way for paging with a sip enabled device

we sell both nortel/avaya equipment and cudatel(a pure ip pbx that uses only sip equipment)

we provide this sip paging equipment with our cudatel

not sure how much i would trust a hosted sales guy to install and wire speaker equipment though

 

[LkEErie]

If your infrastructure is already in place as Cat something copper, why would you want to find a "pure IP" solution? Look closely at the Avaya offering, perhaps the IP Office 500v7 or 8 that allows Nortel sets. It lets you save 32 or so of the best phones you presently own and add new digital sets and IP phones to the system.

LkEErie

 

[phoneguy610]

lkeerie

I am not following you on why just because they are cabled rules out a pure IP solution?

We are a vendor of both so i am curious as to your argument

 

[LkEErie]

We have about 50 sets (currently on Nortel Meridian and Meridian Mail). Fewer than 6 analog lines. 12 trunks on 3 T1's. We have pretty good infrastructure; QoS switches with PoE; All phones are on traditional copper - although cat5e is available to all offices

From this and subsequent posts, the current phone system is digital ond not on Cat5e or greater cable. In addition, accountants love it when you reuse sets. It keeps you from throwing 10K worth of phones into the dumpster.

 

[phoneguy610]

that may be true but usually the ones that matter (ceos and presidents) want the "latest and greatest" or just something new and clean on there desk instead of those old m series phones.

That is why we sell both.

Do not get me wrong i LOVE t series nortel phones. But with this day in age people looking to click to call and all those kind of things, digital phones are starting to become old technology.

Also this new HD voice codec is quite incredible call quality. I have not seen this available on any digital pbx's (correct me if i am wrong)

 

[x11dude]

Good morning all and thanks for your feedback!

Yes we currently use digital sets on 2-wire. Am I ruling out pure-ethernet phones? Well, no - although I may have to upgrade one or two switches but they're mostly OK in that regard. I may need to string cat5e to a few sets; and they're pretty long cable runs (more work for me, lol).

And the M-series phones are getting a little long in the tooth. Most of them still work pretty well but right away I could envision switching at least 1/2 our users to something new school.

There's also a part of me that says, hey, this system's 20 years old - why NOT make the jump to all ethernet sets? They've been around a while and sounds like the quality is there for the most part... Even if transition is more of a headache, maybe it'll be worth it in the long run?

 

[hawks]

Like everyone here I think on site is your best solution both value and dependability. One thing is pricing for a Hosted solution can be anywhere from $25 to $60 a month per phone depending on features you want. With the system you have you could either look at an upgrade or place the Avaya Aura ahead of your Meridian system, this would let you use your existing phones plus add IP sets to upper management if they choose. Just something else to consider, good luck.