Hi, I had an intersting question 1

[UkMister]

Hi,

I had an intersting question asked by one of my users the other day.
They had received an email about something work related. They could also see all the other addressees that the mail had been sent to. A lot of people on this list would also be interested or involved in projects the we are currently undertaking (are you following??)
The user asked me how we would stand from a legal/ethical point of view if she were to send emails out to these people on this list, even though they hadn't given us permission etc to use their email addresses. The information she would send would be relevant to these people.
Would it still be classed as spam? Would it be ethically right to send to a bunch of people you didn't know even if you thought they might find the information of interest?
I had to tell her that I was sorry but I couldn't answer her question.

Any ideas?

ukmister

 

[CajunCenturion]

Although there has been lots ideas posited, I'm sure that there is a single clear cut definition of what spam is.

Personally, I consider spam to be Unsolicited E-email Advertisements. Some people focus more on the Unsolicited part, other focus more on the Advertisement part, and others may have completely different interpretations.

In your particular situation, I would suggest that if the email under consideration is, or has the ulterior motive, to get the recipient to part with some of their money in your direction, and they did not grant permission to get the message, then it would be considered spam. It would be an Unsolicited Email Advertisement in my thinking, and as such, in my judgement, would be unethical.

With respect to the legality, I honestly don't know the specifics or current status of any pertinent statutes that apply. Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[edfair]

Probably would put a disclaimer up front and reply to all. Something like:

"I have received an email as part of a group mailing to people interested in xx.
My company is involved in xx and has products for xx if you are interested.

This message was forwarded using standard forwarding methods and does not imply that your address is being retained."

And reply with the previous message text as the body.

And then delete the message and all possible addresses that were attached.

The problem was the person that sent the original.
Ed Fair
Any advice I give is my best judgement based on my interpretation of the facts you supply. Help increase my knowledge by providing some feedback, good or bad, on any advice I have given.

 

[ANFPS26]

Another point to consider is when sending mass mailings you can use the Blind Carbon Copy option to keep people from seeing who all received the email. I use this myself when sending or forwarding to several people. This will solve a lot of privacy issues, in my opinion. Jim

 

[Granvillew]

I'm having it both ways.

If one of my users approached me for advise I would say it is not accept for our company to take advantage of someone else's oversight.

On the other hand, if I received an email along the lines of those suggested by Ed Fair, then I would accept that a fair enough...especially if the content proved to be usful to me.

Guess it all depends on how you present it, and how your company wishes to project its image.

 

[UkMister]

Thanks for this. Normally my response would be the same as Granvillews. However, we are a government funded charity and so are non profit making. The information we would pass to these people would not be to sell stuff, rather it would be information we may consider helpful to people involved in similar projects.
Sorry if I didn't make this clear. Does this put a different slant on things??

 

[CajunCenturion]

To me it does. As i defined spam, it is a form of advertisement. Since you're not trying to sell something, but only pass on information, then I would not consider it to be spam. Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[Granvillew]

Agreed, that would fit my second point.

Anything in the nature of guidance of free advise is greatfully received by me. Hence my presence in this and other forums.

 

[sjforcum]

It's an unsolicited email. It's spam.

 

[petermeachem]

Agreed, it's spam. 'information we may consider helpful' I get loads and loads of that. I dare say that the people who send me ads for lobster think it may be useful to me. I have access to a huge number of addresses (related to programmes I have produced), but it would be very wrong to use that info. Whether you email, write or phone, it would be wrong in my opinion.

http://www.therockalltimes.co.uk

http://www.therockalltimes.co.uk/2003/03/24/geneva-convention.html

 

[UkMister]

LOL!!! Many thanks for that petermeachem. Your point is well taken! Thankyou for this other perspective. I would agree with you that it is spam too. There is a famous saying - "The road to hell is paved with good intentions".

I think it just goes to show the many grey areas within our profession! I think I'll just go back and say that legally we can send to these people but ethically we may be treading on dodgy ground. Would I be right in this??

 

[petermeachem]

I haven't a clue as to the legality or otherwise and ethics is up to you. I wouldn't do it, but then I see other peoples data all the time, so it might be the start of a slippery slope.

Actually, you might as well. It isn't illegal. It is presumably a fairly short list. You might do some good. Go ahead.

A lot of people are getting fairly snotty about spam. If you send mail to two people you don't know you get vilified. It's the people who send out millions who cause the trouble. I'd like to know how I am supposed to sell stuff if I don't approach people I don't know.

http://www.therockalltimes.co.uk

http://www.therockalltimes.co.uk/2003/03/24/geneva-convention.html

 

[lionelhill]

I think it sort-of depends on the nature of the spam, too. Obviously lots of people feel more strongly about adverts for Viagra or sites where you can look at someone on video, than we do about "innocent" spam.

A particularly destructive variety is that which claims you asked for it. You can imagine my wife's comments when I receive spam from a dating agency or "bad" site claiming I contacted them first!! Unimaginative bosses also tend to discipline employees for receiving this sort of stuff, too, which seems harsh.

What the world really needs is an equivalent of the UK postal and telephone preference services, where you can register that you don't want spam, and it stops happening (or the perpetrators get nobbled much more heavily). But I don't know if that would work on internet.

 

[dgillz]

An unsolicted email is not necessarily spam, its only spam when they try to sell you something or otherwise take your time.

I get unsolicted email all the time from people who are looking for Crystal Reports and/or Macola help, and believe me, I love those kinds of email! Software Sales, Training, Implementation and Support for Exact Macola, eSynergy, and Crystal Reports

http://www.trianglepartners.com

dgilsdorf@trianglepartners.com

 

[manarth]

The issue of spam needs to be addressed at some time - the cost of spam is huge and rising...

Unfortunately, the only way I can see to truly stop spam (i.e. UNSOLICITED junk emails) is if every country around the world implements laws which penalise spammers... otherwise whenever laws are introduced against them, they'll move to another country with more lenient junk email laws.

This doesn't mean we shouldn't introduce laws...if only to reduce spam to a more manageable level. <marc>[ul]help us help![li]please provide feedback on what works / doesn't[/li][li]not sure where to start? click here: faq581-3339[/li][/sup][/ul][/sup]

 

[CajunCenturion]

The first thing before we can even begin suggesting any type of laws at any level, is to come to a consensus and just what SPAM is?

Even as evidenced within this thread, there is a wide variety of opinions on just what constitutes SPAM, from any unsolicited email, to unsolicited email which is an advertisement, to unsolicited email with potential offensive overtones, etc, etc, etc.

I think that before we can begin work on solving the SPAM problem, we need to define what it SPAM.

As I stated earlier, I consider SPAM to be &quot;Unsolicited E-email Advertisements&quot;.

An Unsolicited email which I would not consider spam would be a Public Service Announcement. Not advertising a thing, providing only information. I would not consider an Amber alert SPAM. I respect that others may consider either of the above SPAM, but that only underscores my point -- how can we solve a problem, if we can't define the problem? Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[petermeachem]

I bought some software a while back that I heard about via a completely unsolicited email. It was an excellent purchase, very pleased (epsilon-logic.net I think). I only want the stuff I want. For instance, a US mortgage is no use at all to me. My body parts are (just about) ok. I think what annoys me really is 1) the relentless repetition and 2) you can't stop the same person sending stuff. Perhaps if we were charged for sending an email, say the same as national postage. Wouldn't know how to organise the details, but it would hugely cut down the spam. I assume the isp would know by the contents if it had been paid for and would not forward it if it hadn't.
Someone needs to do something pretty soon, that's for sure.

http://www.therockalltimes.co.uk

http://www.therockalltimes.co.uk/2003/03/24/geneva-convention.html

 

[skiflyer]

No need to make it the same as national postage, the problem isn't with the people sending a few or a few hundred emails, it's those that send thousands upon thousands. Even charging a penny for an email would be a good start, when you imagine how low the rate of return must be for bulk emailing, it really hurts the business model.

Is it worth paying a couple bucks a month myself for this? I dunno, I'm not so hot on the idea, maybe a penny a piece after the first 200.

Of course, then we'd probably just see a whole lot of accts sending 199 pieces of mail a month.

There are a gazillion other problems with this solution (many of them technical, a few of them ethical), but as a concept I think it's the most promising I've heard.

-Rob

 

[lionelhill]

PeterMeachem, you are so right about it being the same people every time. My wife is getting endless stuff in her hotmail from various variations on the name &quot;greetingwishes&quot; and it doesn't matter how many you block, they keep adding a letter here, or deleting one there, or changing just one bit of the name, always after the @ so the stop messages ending in... option doesn't work. She often gets 3 such messages in a single day, presumeably from the same spam-source (and I can hear voices saying &quot;wot? Only three....&quot;

Don't these people realise that they are just being offensive, and they will NOT sell anything that way?? I suppose they don't really care, because as you say, they're not really paying anything.

I wouldn't mind one-off spam, because you can block it. But if you're trying to circumvent blocks, you've got a problem. Your &quot;customer&quot; wouldn't block you if they wanted to buy your product.

So going back to the original thread, if you want to send unsolicited mail, well, that's not so problematic. I can always block you if I find you unwanted. Just please don't try to get round my block by endless name changes.

 

[wbg34]

Why not just send an email asking if you could send them some information?