hard drive back up

[rastaIT34]

Questions on backing up drive....


I want to back my hard drive and all its contents; files folders and applications. I have been using the Microsoft native backup and restore feature in Vista and the XP pro's backup. I thought that if i had to restore my hard drive after a failure, i would have everything back as it was without any issues....a simple restore.

Well I just got off the phone with a Microsoft help tech and i was told this isn't the case. Though she seemed kinda unsure on her answer. She stated that the applications might not work when the system was restored. That I would have to reinstall the applications.

I have an ACER laptop and it comes with a utillity that asks you when you first start the machine up to back up the drive. I tested it out just see how it works. It was very simple, when i restored the computer it went back to its initial state. This is what i want to do.


So my questions are:


1> Are the Microsoft Backup and Restore for Vista and XP pro sufficient and able to restore like i stated above with the Acer? (I havent tried either)

2> Is there a way to truly backup your entire drive and all its contents?

3> If I have to search for a 3rd party application what do you recommend that would truly make an image of the drive so that when I needed to restore, it wouldn't require reinstalling the applications, or creating a boot disc or whatever. (i have a lot of applications)?

your advice is appreciated.

-roy-

 

[goombawaho]

1. No
2. Yes (see below)
3.

You need something like Ghost or Acronis True Image (or other imaging product) that takes a snapshot of the entire system which can restore the system to the date that the image was taken in its entirety.

 

[BadBigBen]

addendum:

"or creating a boot disc or whatever."

all imaging software needs a way to be able to write the image to a BLANK drive, this incorporates either a bootable CD/DVD or other BOOT media (USB Stick, USB HDD)...

other than that Goom is spot on...

Ben
"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."
How to ask a question, when posting them to a professional forum.
Only ask questions with yes/no answers if you want "yes" or "no"

 

[rclarke250]

Also, just an FYI, if the Acer laptop image is being stored on the internal hard drive, it will not save you, if that drive dies, but the packages mentioned already will if you store the backup on another drive or dvd's.

 

[rastaIT34]

The Acer is like a test machine for me i only care about having a clean system restore, so the utility backs up on to DVDs.

the other two machines have to be backed up on an external drive.

 

[goombawaho]

BadBigBen - Yes, my omission/your correction. Storage media on which to put said image file(s) is required (hard drive, DVD, etc.).

I prefer a 2nd hard drive (internal or external) and then you can put multiple copies (images) on it. And hard drives tend to me more reliable than DVDs.

But, if using a hard drive, be careful not to "ghost" the destination drive (empty) to the source drive or else you will be unhappy. Done that. Not good.

Probably not an issue unless you were using a bootable CD where you have to chose the source/destination.

 

[tf1]

I've always like Acronis True Image too. But if you are going to upgrade to Win 7 at any time soon, with the exception of the Starter edition, all Win 7 editions have a utility for creating a backup disk image.


Regards: Terry

 

[rastaIT34]

Getting a bit confused here.


This is my setup: I have two external drives I want to use for my back up.

> 2 Terra external drive.

> 250 gig external drive.

The main computer i want to back up is my vista desktop. It has a ton of apps. i purchased online that i don't have the original discs for. So i cant just re-install them.


Basically what 3rd party app. do you recommend? I found this website that listed a lot of free apps.

http://dottech.org/featured/6194

any thoughts? good experiences?

 

[rclarke250]

yes, go with a paid application.Ghost or true image. Why? let me ask you this....You say you paid for those apps, and can't reinstall from the disks, and sounds like you didn't save the downloaded installer package either, so if you paid for them already once, would you trust them to a free back up that may work, or paid application that will work.

 

[goombawaho]

Good experience: Ghost or True Image would also be my vote just like rclarke250 said. I wouldn't diddle with the free stuff.

It doesn't matter how many external drives you have. Pick ONE as the destination (probably the larger) and set your image backup for once a week or whatever you feel covers you data changes. More if your data changes a lot or less if it doesn't

Then make sure it is running and COMPLETING with out errors AND make sure it is set for PRUNING the images so they don't fill the destination drive.

Follow up on your backup. THE most important words after DO A BACKUP. Finally, understand everything you will need to restore your backup if you drive dies. If you need a bootable disk, create it when you install the software, not when crisis has happened. Create the disk and boot with it to see if it actually boots.

If you're not understanding, download the manual for True Image and get a feel for what we're saying.

It should also be noted that True Image can do an image backup and then a regular data backup - two different things. The image backup saves the entire system whereas the data backup would just be for your files.

 

[Noway2]

would you trust them to a free back up that may work, or paid application that will work.

and

Ghost or True Image would also be my vote just like rclarke250 said. I wouldn't diddle with the free stuff.

I think these two statements mis-represent the issue. The point should be to go with something that is reputable, whether it is paid or free (either in terms of dollars or in source code). I have used some expensive software that really sucks wind and some free stuff that is fantastic.

I have used Ghost in the past, at least on Windows prior to Vista and it worked very well. On the link in the above post, the top listing Clonezilla also has a good reputation and of the free picks, it would be my first choice.

One thing to keep in mind, though this may be obvious, is when imaging the drive you must not be operating from it or have the file system mounted as doing so would be trying to capture something that is changing. You might also consider running a test backup and restore on a less or non critical system first to familiarize yourself with the software and verify that it works as anticipated.

 

[goombawaho]

Those statements don't "misrepresent" the issue. They represent an opinion - mine. As such, it is free - follow my advice or not.

If the OP wants a free solution, I have no advice there. If the OP wants a solution that I have personally verified in my experience, then I have spoken to that.

Now, rastaIT34 - speak as to whether you want free or paid. But let's not start a X is better than Y thread. It just clouds the issue with everyone hitting the ball back and forth.

We should just list products and then rastaIT34 has to research and decide, since it IS his rear if things don't work.

 

[tf1]

I usually run an image backup once a month - usually on the Friday following the Microsoft monthly updates. Occasionally I will do another after installing a major application change or new install.

I follow the image backup with a user data backup and then do a weekly incremental user data backup.

I can vouch for Acronis True Image. I have used it since version 7. This doesn't mean I am condemning any other backup software though, I have not used them to comment. For those with Win 7 running on a budget, the built in backup is very capable and can make disk images too.


Regards: Terry

 

[edfair]

I'm a believer in cloning a drive when you have it operating correctly but weekly seems a bit of overkill.

I've got the EBD and image for Acronis to take me back to the beginning of the year but anything I'm working with is on CD where I can access it from any other machine. The CD is data only and located on the hard drive where I understand it, not where MS sends it by default.

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[Noway2]

Except for the fact that the OP has stated using Windows, my suggestion, absolutely hands down, would be to use DD. It just plain works, has been around for many years, is well documented and simple to use. This lead me to query for a DD for windows which brought me to this link. The discussion mentions one of the important points that I raised in my earlier post: that you can not be using Windows while imaging the drive. To this effect, Ghost apparently uses DOS. This brings us to the question, as asked in the link, why not use a Linux live CD and use DD? Alternatively, as the link suggests, there is the tool rawwrite, which is commonly used to create ISO images (which is what you are really after) when one does not have Linux available. It too has been around for many years. I would also recommend that one perform an md5sum of the the drive partition and of the imaged CD to conclusively verify that the image is 100% correct.

@Goombawaho, I used the term misrepresent because I was trying to be polite, to you in particular. To put it bluntly, I disagree with your equating a purchased product with quality, both in the implication that a product is of quality because it has been paid for and that you need to spend money on it for it to be of quality. At the same time, however, based upon your reputation and my judgement of your experience, I would trust your assessment of the products you mention without question and would second your recommendations to the OP wholeheartedly.

In summary my advice to the OP would be: if you need or want a free solution to look at either Linux + DD or raw write. If you would like a commercial solution go with Ghost or True Image.

 

[rclarke250]

My take on paid software, is that it usually has better documentation, and an easier to understand front end, at least to someone who is just starting out with backing up. I have no way of knowing how advanced the OP or anyone else is in their understanding of technological jargon, or procedures. Also the paid apps mentioned usually have a more robust feature set.

I agree with Noway2 that DD in linux is very good, and very fast. But not for someone without linux skill, or at least a good knowledge of old dos commands that they can equate to the linux command structure.

Also, as Goom said, We were asked for our thoughts, so that was my thought, the OP is free to do with it as he wants. If he chooses a free solution, and wants help with that, I will defer to those with knowledge of the product if it is one I have never used. I too have also used free software 7-zip,foxit,firefox,gmail,
and a ton of others, but never with something like a backup, that would be my sole means of data recovery in case of an emergency. Just my 2 coppers.

 

[goombawaho]

Noway2 - "To put it bluntly, I disagree with your equating a purchased product with quality, both in the implication that a product is of quality because it has been paid for and that you need to spend money on it for it to be of quality."

Yeah, that's cool and likely right. All I'm representing is my experience with my opinion and I can guarantee that I don't post any comments in any area unless I've "been there and done that". I don't just post because I THINK I know something (comment not aimed at anyone, just how I do things). I have done it or I don't comment.

I know paid products can be worse than free products, but I think we demand more from paid products. From now on and I've done this before, I'll say something like "this is what I've used but others may have suggestions for free software".

Just like when throwing up a link to a piece of hardware, it's not the exact item I would buy necessarily. It's a quick attempt to show the general flavor of the product needed.

The OP has to do some research and decide on his own. And I think he's running XP or Vista and not Windows 7 so the internal 7 backup is not a possibility.

 

[BadBigBen]

Goom, back to my earlier post, it was just an additional statement, not a corection... ;-)

and to add to the discussion, I've used Acronis, Paragon, FOG, and DD or BETTER DDRESCUE, before...

I prefer Paragon over Acronis, though both work, I've found Paragon to be easier to use/set-up... FOG (pretty much like Ghost) a bit hard to use but gets the job done...

as to DD, will not use it ever again... I prefer DDRESCUE instead, reason, DD will stop working when it hits certain errors on a drive, whereas DDRESCUE attempts several times to reread the damaged sector...

and I agree, the OP has to do the research past our opinions and suggestions...

Ben
"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."
How to ask a question, when posting them to a professional forum.
Only ask questions with yes/no answers if you want "yes" or "no"