Groupwise and "Domain" Mailbox Question 1

[rfnelson]

Currently, we have a NW4.1 single-server network. Recently, I purchased Novell's SBS6 suite, which includes Groupwise. I've got a test server setup in my office, with SBS6 installed, and want to set up Groupwise to retrieve e-mail from our ISP's domain mailbox.

Currently, we only have dial-up access, but will hopefully have cable access available in January. I need to be able to retrieve e-mail via our ISP with dialup now, and switch over to full-time broadband when the cable system completes their upgrades.

Since I'm a newbie to Groupwise, I was wondering if anyone had experience with this type of configuration. Until now, I've had a dedicated Win98 workstation retrieving and distributing e-mail using Mercury/32, and it's worked fine, but I'm really hoping Groupwise will give me the same functionality, while allowing administration from NW6.

Any hints, caveats, dangers would be appreciated.

Best regards,
RFNelson
--
RFNelson

"What was that?"

 

[Provogeek]

Here is a link to the GroupWise 6 documentation that goes over the SMTP dial up.

http://www.novell.com/documentation...umentation/lg/gw6/gw6_admin/data/a2zwtsr.html

You may need to work with your ISP to get the mailboxes setup right (they won't help you ont he GroupWise side though). It may be a problem since many ISP's don't offer relay servers anymore, but you may get lucky.

When you get your cable link, be aware that if you choose to then host your own mail server, there is a DNS Black List that will black list you just because you have a cable broadband connection. They consider cable and DSL to be home connections and should not be hosting any mail servers what so ever. I don't know any ISP that uses that list though.

Remember, NW6SB changes a lot of rules over the previous versions. before you were stuck with one server, no matter what. Now with the new license model you can have as many servers as you choose, you just will not be able to upgrade user licenses beyond 25 users. Once that happens you will need to purchase the full version of each of the products.

A license gotcha; when a user logs in and takes a license, they do not release it for 90 days. SO if you have 20 users that work 2 shifts, 10 users each shift, you will need 20 licenses for each user. You used to be able to get away with just a 10 users license since only 10 users at a time will be logged in, but thats not possible anymore with the new license model. SOme people hate it, but most love it. This is because you only get user licenses for NDS, not the server. So a 20 user licnese is good for every netWare 6 server you have in your tree.

A note to remember, the faxware software is not what you may expect. It is a sepparate client to use the fax server, it is not intergrated into GroupWise as most people expect. You need to purchase additional software to do this. McAfee is just a demo, you will not get any grant number to get updates unless you buy the full product.

If your users do not like the GroupWise interface, you are not limited to just the GroupWise client. You can use Outlook or any POP and LDAP client to access mail. You loose only some functionality with Outlook, and you can only do mail with the POP and LDAP features. If you use POP besure it is on a separate server if you plan to host your own mail server once you go cable. If you run both SMTP and POP on the same server, the mail nazis will black list you, even if your SMTP server doesn't relay mail.

If you use the proxy cache feature, be sure to create three rules to block spammers from using it as a relay. You need only three proxy rules; one to allow mail in from your domain to your internal mail server, one to allow mail to go out from your mail server from your domain, and a third to block everything else. Do this even if you do not host your own mail server. Also remmeber, what you have there is the full BorderManager 3.6 (may be 3.7 now) Enterprise Edition with firewall, vpn, proxy and some other kewl features, not just the proxy cache feature like before.

You also have the full ZENWorks 3.2 product, not a demo. So you can do network policies, application managment, workstation managment, remote control and imaging.

If you want to use all the features offered in NWSB6, be sure to pack your server with ram, and place the BorderManager software on it's own server so it can be a proper firewall for your network once you go cable (cable nodes are common targets for EXE babys aka wana-be hackers).

Also remember you have a full version of Netware 6, so you get iFolder, WebAccess, iPrint and all the other kick butt web features NW 6 brings to the plate. Brent Schmidt CNE, Network +
Senior Network Engineer
provogeek@hotmail.com
East Bay, California; USA

 

[rfnelson]

Brent:

Thanks for the synopsis - you've pointed out quite a bit that I wasn't aware of! I'm very concerned with the SMTP/POP situation (using the same server), as currently we're using Mercury/32 to send/receive from a Win98 WS attached to our NW4.10 network, and I have had reports that we've been blocked in some systems as a "relay" site.

I also appreciate the hints on BorderManager - since I've not worked with it before, I've been lurking around Novell's forums trying to pick up hints and ideas, but we're such a small shop (and I'm such a neophyte) that much of what I read doesn't make sense...

Since I just found out I can't use the upgrade features of NW6 SBS to upgrade our current NW.410 server to NW6 SBS, I'm now trying to figure out the best way to get everything moved over. I've installed NW6 SBS on my test server, and am duplicating (manually) the NDS structure - I'm then hoping I can take one of the current NW4.10 mirror drives, remove NDS from the SYS volume, rename the volumes, then fire it up in the NW6 server and ncopy over the old files. Does this sound workable to you, or would it be better to simple create a new tree on the NW6 server, attach the NW6 server to our current NW4.10 network, and then copy everything over? I'm concerned about NW6 and NW4.10 trying to replicate/timesync - all I need is a weekend to transfer the data (hopefully keeping user assignments/rights intact), then the "OLD_SYS" and "OLD_DATA" volumes will be removed. (If all else fails, I've downloaded all the patches necessary for our ArcserveIT for NW (v7 Enterprise) and I can hopefully get it running properly on both servers separately, then restore from that backup as necessary... we have about 10 GB of data we need to have on the new server.)

Thanks again for the assistance!

BR,
RFNelson --
RFNelson

"What was that?"

 

[Provogeek]

4.10, ouch, go up to Novell's web site and do a partner search. You may want to hire a contractor that has done NW6 migrations. The migration path from 4.10 is slow and can be complex. By the time you are done you will know more about the inner workings fo NetWare than you really care to know. So if it with in the budget, get the contractor.


The method I use to migrate from NetWare 4.10 to 6 is actualy an inplace upgrqade to 4.2 (or 4.11) then check the health of DS. If the hardware can handle it, do another inplace upgrade to NetWare 5.1 using NDS 7, not NDS 8 (across the wire if the current box is under 300MHz and 256MG ram). I would use the Netware 5.1 SP5 overlay cd you can get from Novell's support site to do the install. Once the upgrade is done I would then ensure the health the NDS, then upgrade it to NDS version 8, do anotehr DS health check and upgrade to NDS 85. Once I have ensured that I have a stable server and have a stable DS and my NICI and certificate are in good working order (plus take care of all the IP protocol needs like SLP and hosts files) I would then go to NetWare 6. This would be an inplace upgrade if I had to migrate the server when going to 5.1, or across the wire if I did an inplace when going to 5.1. I would use the Netware 6 SP2 overlay CD to do the NetWare OS install.

This may sound like more steps than is actually needed, and there are faster methods of getting the job done. This method has been proven to work and retain DS stability. When going from 4.x to 6 can cause serious DS coruption. Recreating can be a pain in the ^%#, so be sure you make backups of your DS database by using the DSREPAIR -RC command at the server console. Brent Schmidt CNE, Network +
Senior Network Engineer
provogeek@hotmail.com
East Bay, California; USA

 

[rfnelson]

Brent:

Thanks again for the advice and assistance... it looks like it will be easier to create the new NW6 SBS server with a new NDS structure (we only have 15 users) and install the original executables we need (our MicroMRP MAX software, running on a 10-user license of Pervasive SQL 2000, is the most important), then copy the data over and re-assign rights...

Since I'm going to be re-creating the printers anyway (to move to NDPS), I don't think salvaging the NDS is that critial, as long as I can use the standard methods of applying rights and attributes (which appears to be the case from my experimentation).

Whew! Too bad we couldn't have updated to NW5.1 back when I asked for it in the budget - would have been easier to migrate now...

Thanks again!

BR,
--
RFNelson

"What was that?"

 

[Provogeek]

Jump up to support.novell and download the TBACKUP3.EXE utiltiy. This will create a trustee restore file for you (it's just a batch file using the RIGHTS command). It will make things easier for you. There is also a new NLM trustee backup utility, but I don't recall the name of it off hand. Brent Schmidt CNE, Network +
Senior Network Engineer
provogeek@hotmail.com
East Bay, California; USA

 

[rfnelson]

Brent:

Great information - thanks! I'll dig around for the NLM version, too, and give them a whirl.

I'll let you know how my "test migration" goes - I'll be attempting it later this week, in hopes of completing the upgrade to NW6 SBS this weekend.

Thanks again,
RFN
*** --
RFNelson

"What was that?"

 

[rfnelson]

Brent:

I did find the nlm version (TRUSTBAR.NLM) at

http://support.novell.com/cgi-bin/search/searchtid.cgi?/10066145.htm

but it appears to only support NW5 and later.

Novell doesn't carry the TBACKUP3 anymore, but I did find a copy on a Russian

http://WWW site.

I'm wondering if using this utility will actually work - from my understanding, NW6 uses ID's, rather than user names. (Most of Novell's literature recommends using a SMS compliant backup software for this task, but I have no idea if I can patch our version to allow a restore of the DATA drive into a new tree...)

Thinking some more about this situation - if I mount the old NW4.10 volume in NW6 (which worked during my testing earlier this week), will the files NCOPY'ed over from the OLD_DATA volume to the new DATA volume "inherit" the trustee assignments of the new NDS? If I build the directories in NW6, assign group and/or trustee rights, will the copied files then have the rights of the directory (assuming the inherited rights filter is not enabled)?

Your thoughts would be appreciated... (Unfortunately, I have no budget for a consultant - I've got to do it myself, on weekends, no less!)

BTW, the old NW4.10 server is a 400 MHz PII with 386 MB RAM, and a 20 GB HDD (mirrored). The new server is a 1.8 GB Celeron with 1 GB RAM, 40 GB drive, and seems to handle a "clean" install of NW6 SBS just fine, although I did have problems with ConsoleOne (on the server) until I found you shouldn't put the C1 workstation snap-ins on the server.)

TIA,
Robert
***
--
RFNelson

"What was that?"

 

[rfnelson]

Brent:

You were absolutely correct about the upgrade path - I'm pretty peeved at myself right now (should have listened to you several posts ago!).

It turns out the deployment manager (NWDEPLOY.EXE) included with NW6 SBS won't even try to run with NW4.10. However, I don't have a copy of NW4.11 or 4.2 to perform the first step. Are these available like the NW5.1 SP5 Overlay CD you mentioned? (I'll do some searching tomorrow...)

I'm miffed because, before I purchased NW6, I read everything I could find, and nothing said NW4.10 was not supported by the upgrade wizards. Of course, I should have know that "NW4.x" doesn't include NW4.10 - it was "orphaned" long ago.

Hopefully, somebody will learn from my mistake!

While this thread is now outside the Groupwise forum "lines," I would appreciate any ideas you might have - again, I'm wondering if I'd have to re-install my Pervasive SQL.2000 and Kewill MAX applications anyway (I just received Lindberg and Harris' "NetWare 6 Administrator's Handbook" and it says you have to reinstall applications after upgrading/migrating anyway?) If so, I think I'll just build the new server, have my users print out any old e-mails (Pegasus) they want to save, and start from scratch...

TIA,
RFN
***
--
RFNelson

"What was that?"

 

[Provogeek]

Be carefull; reinstalling a mail system and forcing users to go from scratch may piss them off and put you in a bad light. You do need to reinstall the software after the migration because the SYSTEM directory is migrated to a different location (can't have system files from differnet OS version htting heads with eachother).

You can migrate the mail so your users will be happy and consider you a god for saving thier e-mail (works even better when they expect to loose most if not all, set expectations low, but not too low, then deliver high). Look into the export options of Pegasus, you may find a path that will work with out spending a butt load of money (hint, there is a GroupWise Agent for Outlook, and outlook can import just about anyones mail). GroupWise 6 also has a built in mail and address book import utility. Check it out, it may help.

to get a copy of 4.11, well ..... try bidding at this eBay auction. You don't really need the license since users won't be using the server while your upgrading (unless you plan to stage).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2079228417

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2079228417

Brent Schmidt CNE, Network +
Senior Network Engineer
provogeek@hotmail.com
East Bay, California; USA

 

[rfnelson]

Brent:

Thanks for the link - if I can get the NW4.2 OS for a decent price, I'll give that a try. If I can download the NW5.1 SP5 overlay CD, then I should be in business.

I did get the new server up and running (sans GW and BM), and successfully got our MRP system running on it. (Had to do some Pervasive SQL.2000 configuration, but not too bad.)

If I can salvage the mail directories, it would be very beneficial, although I can probably configure our current Pegasus clients manually to allow review of archived messages.

Thanks again for the assistance and help!

Best regards,
Robert
***
--
RFNelson

"What was that?"