Gray Market Parts Identification

[392]

I've come into contact with an individual who is marketing gray market Partner modules and CPUs. Obviously, they must appear as genuine Avaya parts.

Question: how does one determine whether equipment is gray market short of submitting serial numbers to Avaya? Outward appearances? Software confirmation?

And what is Avaya's stance on gray market sales,other than "it's not warranted unless bought through dealer channels?"

 

[skip555]

what do you mean by gray market ?

do you mean these are modules made by someone other than avaya but being sold as avaya?

 

[jlshelton]

Gray market traditionally means parts made for sale in countries other than the US, and sold in the US via non-standard channels. Often, gray market parts are of comparable or identical manufacture, but sometimes carry different model numbers and different warranty periods. Sometimes the US market can support higher prices, and manufacturers want to distinguish US parts by some mechanism.

Avaya does manufacture for different markets (note the Country Code on F59 Version Info).

In some cases, manufacturers offer "international" warranties that differ from US warranties, allowing repair under less favorable terms.

=John=

 

[392]

Yes, this particular fellow says he's purchasing from Mexico and Canada. They appear as genuine product, from photos.

As far as whether they are genuine Avaya manufacturers whose products are being overmanufactured and then sold as un-serialized, or a reverse engineered "knock-off" product that looks like but does not function as genuine Avaya, or even an authorized Avaya "third world" product at "third world" prices, I can't say.

If it was simply a country code issue, one would expect the market would readily accept that as insignificant for the price difference. A new ACS CPU runs ~$500 at dealer cost through official Avaya distribution channels. End users can buy from discounters at $550. Most buy at market rates of $600+. Why not buy gray market at $150 and waive the warranty? Apparently, that 70% off rate extends to all items, including modules, phones amd accesories.

If they were knock-offs, I would think there would be fraud lawsuits by Avaya and seizure by Customs and/or Treasury agents. If they were over-runs from the genuine factory, you'd think Avaya would cease doing business with them to prevent such diversion. If they were stolen, why is there such a consistant supply? And the gray market distribution channels seem to be growing at a rapid rate. I'm not sure I understand how this market can exist without Avaya allowing it to in some form or fashion.

 

[drewmich]

392,

It has been a major problem for Avaya and they have done very little to stop the flow of Avaya products sent to Avaya's foreign distribution channels that find their way back into the US.

Avaya's dealers and distributor's have complained for years but no serious action has been taken that I'm aware of. In 2002, Avaya started putting a label on some of their US Partner components to instruct dealers and end buyers that if this label wasn't on the component, that it wasn't a legally distributed US Avaya product and didn't carry their warranty. But if the label wasn't there, how would a dealer or end user that wasn't familar with the new label even know about it????

They are not Black Market products which are stolen or illegal "knock-offs" but are actually manufactured by Avaya but shipped out of the US at favorable prices to go thru the Avaya distribution channels for foreign use only. They sell them cheaper than to US distributors in most caes to build market share into markets where competition is stiff - Toshiba - Panasonic - even Nortel sometimes is very aggressive in pursuing foreign market share. These products come back with lower pricing due to Avaya's foreign market pricing policies and also due to favorable monetary exchange rates.



Andrew Roach
President - Drew Telecom Group, Inc.
Lucent/Avaya Voice Mail-Component-Transtalk Repair Specialists
Lucent/Avaya Telecom Brokers/Resellers
drew@triton.net
269-685-5400 - voice
269-685-5500 - fax

 

[groundstart]

what is the big problem with grey market stuff????
when you are an interconnect trying to make $$$$ and you have been in the biz for years, you know that there is no big difference. Its the same stuff!!!!!!!!!!

You buy a car assembled in the US but with over 60 percent foreign components...its the same thing....

I would just pay more attention to the company selling you the equipment...get in writing their warranty....

 

[DaVinici]

You can always tell when an answer comes from a Avaya
business Partner. They do want to protect their turf.
Has antbody noticed how much equip is sold on Ebay or how many telecom equip resellers are out there.
Lucent/Avaya new equip is to dammed expensive for my taste.
Who needs all the new features of a Magix 3.0 or ACS 6.0
Anybody who has been around for awhile knows the value of
"grey" market or used equipment. Its alot cheaper and works
just fine. The customers love it too.
The only people who care about the grey market or used equip issue are the "avaya busines partners". Who are not
supposed to sell "used Lucent/Avaya equip." But they do!!!
Its a good thing that we, as non-avaya partners don't have
to deal with the "Right to Use" issue with Legends or Partners. Can you imagine what a mess that would be. Then who would be laughing!!!
In my opinion, with a forum like Tek-Tips, who needs Avaya
Tech support. Thats the only real advantage for a avaya
business partner.
May the grey markets , Ebay and Telecom Gear live long
and prosper.

 

[drewmich]

I understand the advantages of any grey market(GM) component ... but was just answering 392's basic question.

If someone wants to sell these products, that's their perogative and obvious financial gain, especially if who they are buying the GM components from offers and SUPPLIES a valid 12 month or comparable warranty for their customers.

We are not Avaya Dealers and don't really care either way about GM products.

Andrew Roach
President - Drew Telecom Group, Inc.
Lucent/Avaya Voice Mail-Component-Transtalk Repair Specialists
Lucent/Avaya Telecom Brokers/Resellers
drew@triton.net
269-685-5400 - voice
269-685-5500 - fax

 

[392]

So the bottom line is: if you gain a source for the GM equipment, there are no legal ramifications as an independent dealer, limited or no warranty from Avaya, only a negotiable warranty from the source (limited to their financial capabilities and reliability/reputation) and a price level that allows for the occasional failure due to the larger profit margin. Seems like a deal that can't be beat, in small quantities.

I can understand how Avaya BPs need to protect their turf, and I can also see where the market exists for the cheaper product. General Motors dealers sell Chevrolets and Geos out of the same building with no conflict. They also sell used cars with a limited or no guarantee with no conflict.

In the words of Ed Bundy: "I gotta get me some a 'dat."

 

[telprog]

392,
If you can get it then grab it,(Hugh savings) The only thing to be aware of is make sure they stand behind it, most will but as you know there are some that won't. But then again for the price it's very easy to replace.

 

[itpphoneguy]

Hi All,
At the risk of creating a fire here. We only buy from the manfacturer. It is not worth the risk for our reputation to install "grey market", which could be remanufactured, refurbished or whatever. We need a low failure rate on the equiptment.
Now, if a customer buys off the web, or where-ever - great. It's not our problem. We will install, program and troubleshoot that stuff ... at the customer's expense. At least the customer knows what he's getting from us. And so do we. There is nothing as expensive as a warrnaty service call.
-Chris

 

[telprog]

itp,
To tell you the truth I only install new Avaya from my dealer to avoid any problems, I do run into brand new or as they call it (never been used) phones from time to time but as far as the modules go I won't but grey market, but that's just me.

 

[itpphoneguy]

Hi telprog,
I wasn't pointing at anyone. It's a personal choice and I think a rework always blows the profit. The phones are less chancy. Plus, you can ship those if they fail.
-Chris

 

[telprog]

itp,
No offense taken, was just responding to your post.
Russ