Google will only find my sites by sitename 2

[mikesh27]

During September I submitted 5 sites (six if you include one identical one with two domains on two servers) to google.com/addurl, submitit.bcentral and the 14 freebies on addme.com.

I checked Google every week for three and a half weeks, then finally on the first day of October, I could find all six, but only by site name with or without extension.

In other words a search on "ABC Computer Solutions" doesn't find my site, but if I type in "AbcComputerSolutions" it does. Also it only displays the website address as a result with no text other than a "similar pages" link.

My knowledge of search engines is more limited than even I thought, but I have tried to follow advise on this forum and others with TITLE, HEADINGs and KEYWORD RICH body text. I have bi-directional links to all sites and I thought this helped.

It may be a stupid question, but once Google indexes the sites, do we have to wait until the next index before any changes to site are updated as well?

Could anyone please advise where I could have gone wrong. I didn't expect to get very far up the search order with all six, but would have thought I could find my sites by putting in the name of the company.

Thanks for any help you can offer.

Mike

 

[ChrisHirst]

just sounds like you've done so much wrong!

search engine submission. waste of time. submit to directories. The SEs will find your site(s)

mirror sites on different domains and servers. waste of time and money. one will eventually get buried by the dup content filters and never see SE light of day. usually takes around 6-8 months

cross-linked sites, Yahoo is currently purging obvious cross linking very agressively and ALL guilty sites are being dropped. Google is also penalising/discounting cross linking.

keyword rich body text. sounds like formula SEO keyword density crap. Don't worry about the SE penalties on this. your visitors/prospective customers will do instead.

Generally it reads like you have six sites about the same/similar subject/product and you are simply attempting to trick the SEs. Wrong thing to do.

Post some URLs if you want more input.



Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?

http://www.candsdesign.co.uk

A website that proves the cobblers kids adage.

http://www.cram-system.com

Nightclub counting systems

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

 

[xtendscott]

This is very normal for new sites.

Are you not being found at all or just not on the first page? How many pages are on your sites? It does take time for SE's to find the level2 or level3 pages and add them to the index as well. As long as you are using standard TextLinks/Img for navigation sub pages will be found in time.

In Google Search you can use "site:

http://www.abc-domain.com"

to see what pages Google has found.

I have bi-directional links to all sites and I thought this helped.

This just makes a small closed network of sites. I wouldn't interlink them all, atleast not until sites are more mature. Focus links to the "main" site with good link text.

With only 5 sites you don't have the "Power" to create an authoritive site to rank well. But you can distribute links so that they all get indexed. I would do somthing like this for linking between site as site1 and site5 being your main sites, but work for links to all sites.(this assumes that all sites can and have a reason to be on their own, otherwise trash them and work on the main site util it is self supporting)
site1: 2,5
site2: 1,4
site3: 1,2
site4: 1,3
site5: 1,2,3,4

What you need the most for new sites is outsite links pointing to your sites. Find related sites and ask for or exchange links. Provide them with HTML with the link text and a description you would like for the link. This makes it easy for them to add it to their site.


**Only my 2cents, there are always experinces that may suggest otherwise.

xtendscott
Web Site Design and CF Programming

 

[mikesh27]

Thanks guys.

The 5/6 sites are as follows:

http://www.abccs.co.uk

- our main site computer networking and pc/server sales. Business established for 10 years with reasonable client base.

http://www.pluginandgo.com

(and *.co.uk as alias) - self install networking. Got the idea when we sold two 10 user Windows 2003 networks to Luxembourg and Belgium - never have any problems after more than a year and have since shipped several small workgroups.

http://www.justmadeit.co.uk

- hardware and software support and programming. Okay I admit it. I started this for linking!!! I did this after reading a post saying cross-linking didn't affect SEO.

http://www.aseasyas.com

- web design for our existing clients. Only two so far after a month, one of which is:

http://www.hamptoncarcentre.co.uk

http://www.abccomputersolutions.co.uk

- this is the mirror of abbcs.co.uk, but, unlike the original, it's on a server that supports ASP.NET which I will use in the future.

Ok, xtendscott I'm going to do a matrix like this:

abccs.co.uk - connects to aseasyas.co.uk and justmadeit.co.uk
pluginandgo.com - connects to abccs.co.uk and justmadeit.co.uk
justmadeit.co.uk - connects to abccs.co.uk and aseasyas.co.uk
aseasyas.co.ik - connects to abccs.co.uk and pluginandgo.com
hamptoncarcentre.co.uk - connects to abbcs.co.uk and aseasyas.co.uk
abccomputersolutions.co.uk - connects to abccs.co.uk and pluginandgo.com

You suggest exchange links, but how is this different to what I was doing?

I can find all six, but only by site name with or without extension. In other words a search on "ABC Computer Solutions" doesn't find my site, but if I type in "AbcComputerSolutions" it does. Also it only displays the website address as a result with no text other than a "similar pages" link.

Thanks again, both of you.

Best regards,

Mike

 

[mikesh27]

Sorry - should be

http://aseasyas.co.uk

not *.com.

Mike

 

[xtendscott]

Mike,

Sites that are exchanging links are not in itself bad, One way links are best if possible. But it is natural for related sites to point to each other when it is helpful for each sites visitors. Its just when a "closed network" exchanges links within its self it "may" appear to SE as UN-Natural linking and classify that network as SPAM.

The process of interlinking sites depends greatly on the sites. I was just trying to represent a fairly "random" or natural linking strategy. (ie directories link to many sites, small sites link out to authority sites or other small sites, authority sites recieve many links and link to other related or authority sites)

TIP: Put a Signature in your profile with links and text to your main sites in here. It gives you a few links over time. Get involved in other forums that allow signatures too.(don't do it to spam they get deleted)

PS I put a link on my site to Networking and Support for U.K., London on my site for you. It gets crawled fairly often and will help SE's find you.(we also have related sites).


xtendscott
Web Site Design and CF Programming

 

[ChrisHirst]

right, quick review, simply because it would take far to long to do them all properly.
lose the mirror. park the name on the same server or 301 redirect it to the site you are going to use and lose the scrolling iframe. It causes horizontal scrolling at less than 1024 and can't be seen by crawlers any way.

justmadeit. got to say it looks like it as well you can tell there is no time wasted on it it certainly will not do you any favours. strip it and 301 it or park it

I would combine the 4 networking sites into one. The content can make one good site rather than 4 somewhat diluted ones.

Aseasyas looks a bit FPish and the broken links don't help

copywriting. far too self based. nobody gives a toss about you and your company, it's what you can do for them that they care about.

the cross linking is fairly tame but isn't going to help you much. You need some more in-depth SEO work on things like directory submissions, keyword research, link building and copywriting.



Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?

http://www.candsdesign.co.uk

A website that proves the cobblers kids adage.

http://www.cram-system.com

Nightclub counting systems

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

 

[xtendscott]

park the name on the same server or 301 redirect it to the site you are going to use

Chris is right, choose one. Duplicate content = one site gets canned.

Fix

http://www.aseasyas.co.uk

with working links and good content. Some content can overlap but not duplicate

http://www.abccs.co.uk

or

http://www.abccomputersolutions.co.uk(pick

one) and link between sites when appropriate. Work on these two main site, don't waste much time with the others for now.

xtendscott
Web Site Design and CF Programming

 

[mikesh27]

xtendscott (both posts)

Thanks I see the difference now and how closed network would be seen as spam.
It's 11pm and need to sort and deliver a problem server to a client by 9am tomorrow, but will implement your suggestions when I get back.
Some forum members say meta tags are being ignored now, but when I tried a search on one of your sites

http://www.bluemountainhumane.org,

and searched on "blue mountain thrift shop" it came first on Google.com. In fact the searches on that site contradicts most of things I am being told.
Thanks for the links.



Chris,
Will the 301 redirect work if the server is IIS instead on Apache - I want to keep abccomputersolutions.co.uk but I'm sure it's fully Microsoft-based?
The five sites, as you see them now, were all done since Friday and hardly started in the cases of justmadeit and pluginandgo which are little more than a homepage and that's not finished yet. I did think I'd escaped any broken links though! The "back soon" graphics in the wrong folder!!
They were "more attractive" versions of the originals written and registered during the previous four weeks.
I don't want to split the sites but I understand the points you are making and appreciate your comments.
Besides the main site which is only 50% finished these were quickly put together to research SEO.
Obviously, I'm very new to SEO, but do want to learn.
I appreciate the copy is crap - I've been told to use keyword rich copy with titles, headings and body text which should explain it's bias.

I'd better get on with my server now.

I'll say goodnight for now it's 11.20 now and need to fix my client's server.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[mikesh27]

Chris,
Was going to tweak the iframe when SEO finisehed. I appreciate SEs ignore any type of frame, but would a better iframe cause any harm to searches to the site?
From what you and xtendscott say - it's pretty obvious you can't have duplicate sites?

Best regards

Mike

 

[xtendscott]

mike,

who know's if meta tags are ignored or given verly little weight.

description: is often displayed in Google serps if a keyword is also in the description that was used in the search. (that does not mean it is given any weight in the algo to determine the placement, it is just a way to somewhat control what is displayed in the SERPS)

keywords: More so just to have the words there if SE's place any value in them now or in future. Very easy for SPAM, but if it matches content maybe its a variable.


I don't want to put words into what chris was saying, but I see the < IFRAME > as a usability issue for users.
1. user can't control it because of the script.
2. makes the column large and increases page width and makes users have a left-to-right scroll if they are at 1024x768(make it work best a this resolution).
3. Users don't like to scroll small windows for informaition.

If it's important information put it on the page, if its not then get rid of it or put the Ifrmae somewhere else.


As chris mentioned "Keyword Research", it is very important. Build a list of keywords, run searches on those keywords looking at the top 10-20 sites. Look at those pages, code, title and how they do internal linking. Write down keywords they might be targeting also. If you are focusing on your region(London, Surrey and Middlesex), use those regions throughout the site where appropriate not just on home page.

Its a learning process, enjoy.


xtendscott
Web Site Design and CF Programming

 

[ChrisHirst]

meta keywords are ignored for ranking purposes in the main engines.
meta description is read and does often get used as the SERP description by Yahoo & MSN and Google can use the tag content as the description for the SERP text.
And with no disrespect to xtendscott, but if I didn't get a page to no 1 for "blue mountain thrift shop" I'd go take up golf . One thing to be aware of is that for a phrase with no actual pages optimised for it, the SERPs are pretty random.

301s are very easy to do on IIS. A couple of ways exist depending on how much control you have on the server.

having half-finished sites spidered can be a risky business. no directory will list you and there is a chance that it will get the SEs to limit crawling at the most vunerable time. Often, and I've had it happen twice on different sites, if the first few crawls aren't "clean" it can take 2 or 3 months to get crawled beyond the home page.

There is only one rule to follow in SEO, "Build the site for the visitors" Strangely enough the SEs love it as well.

Fixing servers at 11:30 PM on Sunday night. Deep joy, been there, done that. BTW I'm GMT as well.


Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?

http://www.candsdesign.co.uk

A website that proves the cobblers kids adage.

http://www.cram-system.com

Nightclub counting systems

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

 

[ChrisHirst]

iframes are as much a PITA for SEO as framesets are, but sometimes they are useful. xtendscott's 3 points are exactly right plus it's a waste of content.

If the iframe is essential, this is CSS code for a SE friendly IFrame looky-likey.

#scroll_box {
	position:relative;
	background-color:transparent;
	width:300px;
	height:300px;
	overflow:auto;
        border:3px inset silver;
}

Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?

http://www.candsdesign.co.uk

A website that proves the cobblers kids adage.

http://www.cram-system.com

Nightclub counting systems

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

 

[mikesh27]

Chris,
Sorted the server - avoid 64mb Geforce MX440 graphics cards on three year old servers. Couldn't resist checking these out before grabbing some sleep.
The point I was trying to make with

http://www.bluemountainhumane.org

was I was being told meta tags were ignored and go for keyword rich text. xtendscott uses "thrift shop" as his 7th keyword/phrase and this phrase is not on the web page. Although I typed "blue mountain thrift shop" in quotes this was to show you the search words, I didn't use quotes in the search. The point I was trying to make was if I type the Title of my site, headings or keyphrases I get SFA.
Thanks Chris for your advice on content before SEO (I hope to get everything done over the next few days), but I could have the best site in the world but how do I get people to see it - (I wish I had a £/$ for everyone who's asked that I hear you thinking, but with newbies like me....)
Is it better to do a 301 or transfer the name to the same server?

xtendscott,
Ok, I give in, the iframe gets it. I did like the idea, but as you both say, it's a bit uncontrollable.
Good suggestion about the keyword search, however, with abccs.co.uk I have to admit I did exactly that copying the Title and almost the heading, most keywords of the number one UK site in a similar field at the time.
What did they have?

Okay it's 1.30am, I've a server that's tested perfectly for nearly two hours and I'm going to bed.

Goodnight and thanks,

Mike

 

[mikesh27]

Ok Chris,

I'll try before I get rid of the pain in the a**e.

All trhe best,

Mike

 

[xtendscott]

And with no disrespect to xtendscott, but if I didn't get a page to no 1 for "blue mountain thrift shop" I'd go take up golf.

No offense taken.

Not sure that was even a target phrase and in the industry and region that they service, there really are no competitive phrases. Can't say I did anything else besides on page stuff, but they were happy and site traffic more than quadrupaled(from a little bit to a bit more). Gave them a really good deal and donated much of my time.

xtendscott
Web Site Design and CF Programming

 

[ChrisHirst]

xtendscott, I realise it wasn't a targeted phrase, apart from everything else, Shop is more a UK phrase, the US will use Store. In fact there's probably only about 10 searches been done for the phrase ever. All by the people in this thread .

Looks a good site as well, on-page bits are good (I like the poem BTW) and for the subject, off page stuff will pretty much take care of itself quite naturally (as it should be).

Mike. The reason it's top is a mix of on-page and off-page effects. Check the google cache and look how google got to the results for it.

The reason you get no results is it's just too soon. the one thing you need in this world is patience, (or a fat wallet for PPC) 6 weeks is about the average time from first crawl to any real (non-competitive) rankings. you could be found for a url search in a week, competitive 3 - 6 months minimum.

Because the site is very new just transfer the name over at DNS level. two names to one site is not a problem, as only one should be promoted on-line and if anyone should link to the other name, the SEs do sort that out by burying the one with less links (usually)

If you are going to take SEO seriously, and I suspect you've found some of the algo chasing "formula SEO" experts with the 'x' words per page, 12.966666% KW density, paragraphs inside <Hn> tags etc, before you get too deep into that route do some reading at IHelpYou and HighRankings as well. Google algo chasing will get results but as soon as the algo changes your results disappear and you're back at square one. (as happened in Nov 2003 with the infamous "Florida" update)


Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?

http://www.candsdesign.co.uk

A website that proves the cobblers kids adage.

http://www.cram-system.com

Nightclub counting systems

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

 

[mikesh27]

Okay Chris, I'll be patient. It's just that when I did my 1st abccs.co.uk site 15 months ago, it was up and running within a couple of days and I could do easy searches like ABC Computer Solutions Surrey and come 1st. I know I should have anyway, but even if I put the same in quotes now nothing comes up.

I checked out a couple of your sites before I saw your post.

Link Popularity:

http://www.candsdesigns.co.uk

243,

http://www.hamptonroadse.co.uk

0,

http://www.bodyelementals.co.uk

0

http://www.pis.co.uk

2
search engine saturation:

http://www.candsdesigns.co.uk

113,

http://www.hamptonroadse.co.uk

0,

http://www.bodyelementals.co.uk

0

http://www.pis.co.uk

13
(pis.co.uk are my main competitors)

Google searches:

http://www.hamptonroadse.co.uk

(13 keywords)
Blackpool social club 6th(web) / 4th(uk)
caravan site blackpool 2nd / 2nd
caravan sites blackpool 47th / 45th
caravan sites lancashire 27th / 26th

http://www.bodyelementals.co.uk

(no keywords)
body detox preston - 5th / 3rd
body detox lancashire - 1&2 / 2&3 ?????

Does this mean I should not worry about Link Popularity??

Would the two sites have experienced the same results as me after only a few days.

Out of 8 main Blackpool directories I could only find an address listing for hampton road in uk-sites.com.

I subscribed to HighRankings.com report by Jill Whalen, The Nitty Gritty of Writing for Search Engines. This where I came up with the keyword rich format.


Thanks,

Mike

 

[ChrisHirst]

For low competition phrases Link Pop doesn't really mean a vast amount. It's useful to have but not essential. It gets more important when you get to this level Laptop Rental (The site I work on occasionally is laptopbits)

Neither of those sites have a dedicated linking campaign apart from when I find somewhere suitable while surfing around, but each brings in enough traffic and enquiries for the clients, And many of the Blackpool directories are PFI and the client doesn't see any benefit in a listing. But hey, it's their choice.

On your sites there are some problems, I would suspect you are being penalised, possibly for duplicates looking at the site: searches
abccomputersolutions
abccs
Webbug shows no problems with a crawl, Is the site(s) still getting visits from googlebot? Hopefully it is, because at least while you are getting visits the problem could be resolved.


Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?

http://www.candsdesign.co.uk

A website that proves the cobblers kids adage.

http://www.cram-system.com

Nightclub counting systems

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

 

[Foamcow]

I've been lurking and reading this thread with interest

Chris, regarding laptopbits, does the following bit of code have SE impact?

<!-- Laptop Parts -->
<!-- notebook laptops -->
<!-- Laptop repairs -->
<!-- Laptop upgrades -->
<!-- computer computers servers hire rental-->
<!-- compaq dell nec toshiba ibm -->
<!-- memory ac adapter keyboard hard drive -->

<!-- modem cd rom lcd dvd upgrade notebooks -->

What was your strategy regarding laptopbits.co.uk ?
maybe this could be another thread of FAQ ?

http://www.foamcow.com

"I'm making time