general development question

[codeone]

Im sorry I posted this here but I have no other place to go, I dont like any other forums and this one doesnt have a general questions...

so if you would like to give me advice then please feel free...

my situation is this:
I work for a pretty big loser, that is on the verge of bankruptcy, and for the past two weeks I worked really hard on a website for this guy, and I had no idea how he was until after the site was near completion... he basically gets people to work for him and then stiffs them...he did this with a couple of two really awesome IT guys who installed his remote network for him, just totally worte them a bad check and is now currently avoiding them...RED FLAG!!!!! Again I just learnt this info today from 4 reliable sources...

I have a meeting with this guy to talk about finialization and I am worried about what to do and say, I feel like I should get the due balance at that time, and if he says no, what the heck am I to do then, we have no written contract, just a verbal one, plus I have had them fill out a form which may show that they were aware that I was developing for them, plus we have had prior meetings discussing this matter, I think the intent was there, so maranda should get me payed if he stiffs me, right? Im totally stuck what would you do? If he says no Im not paying you, is there anything I can do about this....


thank you so much

codeone

__________________________________________________________
"The only difference between me and a mad man is that I'm not mad."
- Dali

 

[Supra]

Verbal contracts ARE contracts. In a court of law, verbal contracts are treated very much the same as written contracts. The fact that his signature is on a note stating that you did work for him also creates a sailor's receipt. This receipt is a valid form of contract and is permissible in court. At your next meeting I would not ask for the money, I would ask how you are going to be paid. This implies that you are seeking payment, not demanding that it be paid. If this character is as shady as you say, you don't want to upset him. It's easy to say "Go in there and tell him you want your friggin money, now." But it's not likely that will happen, unless you tower over him. Just keep in mind that you have PROOF the work was done by you and any court in the USA will recognize that document as such. If he refuses to pay you or return phone calls, file a complaint with your local law enforcement agency. They will attempt to contact him. If necessary, you'll end up in small claims court and he'll lose, plus he'll pay court costs. Good luck.

 

[Supra]

Oh, by the way, you said "...he did this with a couple of two really awesome IT guys who installed his remote network for him..." If you know these guys, ask them to file a complaint as well and accompany you to court. Character is a very important thing. If the court sees that this has happened before, his character will be very much frowned upon and your chances of winning are greatly increased. I doubt you'll have any trouble winning the case anyway, but it'd be a very good idea. Once again good luck.

 

[codeone]

thank you so much...I do tower over him, but I rather do this the right way...perhaps I will get smart and use written contracts for now on...live and learn, I guess...
makes you awful mad when someone does you like that, when your intentions where producing the best quality work possible...

Man.. I worked so hard on this site and if I get stiffed I would just flip out...

anyway, thanks again for the advice, I truly appreciate it!!

best regards

CodeOne

__________________________________________________________
"The only difference between me and a mad man is that I'm not mad."
- Dali

 

[codeone]

excellent idea!!!, I don't know them personally just met them while they were here, they travle around I think...but they call from time to time looking for him, and if I get the phone the next time they call, I will certainly suggest that...great idea!!!

thanks alot!!!

co

__________________________________________________________
"The only difference between me and a mad man is that I'm not mad."
- Dali

 

[codeone]

supra,

Also I forgot to say:

I am only about 90% done I still have to finish the virtual tour, and that is primarily what the meeting is about, so should I ask for the remainder at that meeting before finsihing the site?

thanks man!

co

__________________________________________________________
"The only difference between me and a mad man is that I'm not mad."
- Dali

 

[Supra]

Personally, I wouldn't ask for the rest of your payment until the site is finished. From the employer's point of view, when the amount is paid in full, what motivation is left for the employee to finish the work in a reasonable amount of time or at all? I would still go over how the owed amount is going to be received, after you discuss the virtual tour. Usually, the last thing talked about at a meeting is the thing that sticks in the minds of the attendants the longest. This way he knows you're eager to be paid for your effort. Upon completion of the website I assume you must present him with a finalized copy of the work that was done? At that time I would inquire as to when you can expect to receive your payment.

 

[codeone]

..and if he doesnt pay, Im judge judy bound...and hey if he does go threw with the virtual tour, then thats one program I get for free, which sorda balances out the scale a bit...Im sure this kind of thing happens alot, except those developers are more wise and most probably have a contract signed, which is a new policy I am going to follow from here on out, I dont care if it's the pope, this kind of thing just plain sucks, but hey the rest of my PC finally came into today from newegg and thats a plus to a negative day...

Thanks for helping me out Supra, I was on the brink of irrationality...lol, you were a big help to me!!!

best regards,

codeone

__________________________________________________________
"The only difference between me and a mad man is that I'm not mad."
- Dali

 

[Supra]

I'm glad to hear it. I went through something along the lines of what you are. I found a job listing on dice.com and applied. The "company" was located in Norfolk,VA. The owner called me and asked to see a sample of what I could do with Macromedia Flash. He said if it was good, he would hire me and pay for me to relocate to Virginia where I would be developing Flash applications for government websites. I was pretty excited by the whole thing so I quickly revised my best Flash project (an emulation of the Windows98SE operating system with double-clicking, a command line, screensaver(s), etc.) and commented every line of code that wasn't obvious. I immediately sent him the *SOURCE* of the project. Bad idea. He called me a few days later and told me he really liked the project and that he would be in touch very soon with his decision. Apparently it was between me and a few other people who wanted the same position. When he called me, he was at a McDonald's drive-thru on a "business meeting"? Needless to say, I never heard from him again, and I'm sure some of my hard work has been used to make his "company" money. The moral of the story is, never ever EVER trust someone you do business for. I hope your client plays nice though bud. Keep me posted.

 

[codeone]

holy s*** Supra!!! That is total Bull S***!!!!! I'm sorry that happened to you man...I couldn't even imagine programming something like that, let alone having some WEASLE steal it from me!!! What a friggin snake,... that kind of stuff kinda makes you NOT want to be a webdeveloper!!! You should go ahead and copyright it and publish it anyway, and make some money...I would probably get a copy just to see it work! I've actually seen something like that but it was a total scham nothing was clickable, pretty much just for looks, Im serious you really should publish it somewhere, and use it as a demo of what you can do, like on your own website, etc..., which would sell it or what not...I gaurentee it would be a huge prospective client generator...well what ever you end up doing I hope it works out for the best, for you, and I will certainly post back what happened, might help remind the newer guys coming in, to get it all in writting FIRST!!! In fact, I'm thinking about going in with a contract and making him sign it, BEFORE I countinue on, if NO then atleast my time is not spent on waisting it...and I will have to think a little more about how Im going to react to my first dead beat client...is it worth the aggravation ?true:false;

thanks again for the advice and best regards,

CodeOne

__________________________________________________________
"The only difference between me and a mad man is that I'm not mad."
- Dali

 

[Supra]

If you feel comfortable presenting him with a typed document that specifies the amount you are owed and a date the payment is required by (not to mention the method of payment - EG: CASH, check, etc) by all means present it to him. I've actually created a stencil contract that I photocopy for each client I deal with. It specifies the type of work done, the cost, the date started and the estimated date of completion. As for the Flash I got screwed on, I lost the FLA due to the SirCam32 virus a while back. I'm not too worried about it though. Since then I've begun developing a new site which emulates WindowsXP with JavaScript. The way I see it, it's much harder to emulate an operating system with JavaScript than with Flash. Hopefully I can land a web design job with it. Check it out if you'd like:

http://juiced.netfirms.com

PS.. it's definitely worth the aggrivation. In the end you'll feel a lot better having gone through it. The best teacher is trial and error, no matter how many errors.