Future viability of Novell/Netware?

[gillis]

I'm hoping this may prompt some discussion - I personally need some input and perhaps others do as well. Our Tribally-owned enterprise began networking PC's in 1988 with Novell 1.xx Over the years we've remained loyal to it and currently operate a small LAN of 70 users on Netware 6. 3 yrs. ago the Tribe itself moved to Microsoft and occasionally hints that we should do the same. I've resisted the pressure to "conform" by citing our record of high availability and lack of problems so far.

Today we received a Novell notice re: training resources and since we have budget $$ for such things it caused me once again to consider our - and my - future. Which brings me to a major question I'm struggling with.

"What is anyone's opinion on the continued viability of Novell as an NOS of choice? Microsoft is a huge player market-wise and everywhere I turn IT folk question my network choice. So far, I just smile and respond "it works...and works, etc..." Thoughts on that question lead to another - if budgets allow for some continuing education, is it practical to spend it on Novell certifications or the seemingly more common MS tracks? If Novell cert. is still a marketable path, what are the most cost-effective ways to pursue it? There is not only the business interests to consider, but also an individual's experience list which translates to our potential value to other employers should the need arise."

Thoughtful responses from some of you experienced professionals would be greatly appreciated. Dislike of Mr. Gates and his organization to me is not a valid rationale for making business decisions so hopefully some of you out there have some honest, objective observations and wisdom to share on the subject.

Thanks in advance,
gillis

 

[rjs]

Just as Gates hating is not a valid reason to stay with NetWare, MS being a high-profile OS is not a valid reason to switch. IMHO, the decision to upgrade (to the next NW version) or convert to Windows should be primarily based on functionality. Define your functional (and $$$) needs, then pick the OS that best meets those.

Our client-base is still about 40% NetWare / %60 MS. We do an annual survey of law firm administrators across the country (for the last 5 years) and although NW has lost ground, it still has about 36% based on the survey. And though many shops have both OSes, those that have both use NetWare as their file and print and MS for specific applications.

Understanding that I am biased (prefer NetWare), I've found NetWare to be more stable and more secure. I also believe it is easier to manage security in NetWare.

As for the certifications, I think it is better to have both Novell and MS as mixed environments are also commonplace these days. If you don't understand both NOSes from the inside out, how can you make an informed decision on which is best for a particular environment.

 

[RandallFlagg]

I'm a dyed in the wool Novell bigot, so I would agree with you on NetWare stability etc.

Unfortunately, the NetWare cert is not marketable. I hate to say it, but in this economy there are few Novell jobs out there.

However, why not ask the Microsoft drones about Linux? Why pay for either M$ or NetWare? If you need file and print why not Linux, and put eDirectory on it. Then again, put eDirectory on W2K, to help (in)Active Directory(Domain) find the light switch.

Remember, you don't need NetWare. You can run eDirectory, GroupWise and ZENWorks on W2K servers.

I might update my CNE to 6. I AM NOT paying Gates any more to update my MCSE to W2K. M$ says I have to take 7 tests again? I don't think so. I got my MCSE for NT, and then watched alot of paper certs get issued.

I am currently working on a Linux certification instead. Then I'll probably do some security thing. Growth industry with M$ so prevalent!

Just my .02.

 

[Provogeek]

[FACTS]

Here is a good history lesson on Novell.

http://www.bakutoday.net/view.php?d=1621

They still have presence in 80% of the Fortune 500 market.
Novell customers include British Telecommunications, American Express, Southwest Airlines, Coca Cola, Daimler Chrysler, McDonalds, and many government and education entities.
[/FACTS]

I read an article not to long ago with this quote in it from Carl Ledbetter, Novell’s CTO
"We have spent our entire career selling to Dilbert, but what we found is that Dilbert's pointy-haired boss has the checkbook.”


[Personal Opinion]

If Novell gets it’s marketing right, we may see a change. It will be slow and Microsoft is known to retaliate to technically better products using FUD (look up the Halloween documents, an eye opener on MS’s response to Linux). Novell would have a hard time selling a furnace to an Eskimo, so we will have to wait and see what happens. New products are being launched, and Novell has finally some up with an add campaign that makes sense (that fish thing was stupid).

[/Personal Opinion]

 

[lgarner]

NetWare as a File & Print NOS is limited, but it's *very* good at what it does. Windows is a general-purpose jack-of-all-trades NOS which does a lot, but not particularly well.

Personally, I have high hopes for NetWare on Linux. I've been replacing both Novell and Microsoft products with Linux, and would love to run NDS and other Novell products on it.

As for whether Novell can actually pull it off: I wish I knew.

 

[RandallFlagg]

"File and Print NOS is limitied" ?

I don't think so, from a stability, performance and feature contest with W2K.

"..would love to run NDS and other Novell products on it [Linux]."

Guess what: You can! Check out eDirectory, yes it already runs on Linux, and W2K!

 

[lgarner]

I wasn't clear: NetWare is limited to being a File & Print NOS. It is not an app server, regardless of what Novell tried to tell us when they got Java working on it. No Oracle, no Peoplesoft, etc, etc. The other part of my statement apparently agrees with you: NetWare does what it does very well.

You're right. eDirectory can run on Linux. Groupwise cannot, though, and that's the "other product" that I really look forward to seeing on Linux. If Novell can truly get their products running as modules on Linux (no special kernel, please), then the future just might be very bright for them.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Dear lg:

Sorry, I am not looking for a fight. I agree with you 100%. Novell lost the app server market the day NT showed up.

Unfortunately, file and print is now a commodity.

Your linux analysis is right on. We can only pray.

 

[lgarner]

I didn't mean to sound argumentative, and apologize if I did.

Novell makes great products, and I'm excited to see them embrace Linux. They've had grand visions before which came and went (remember DENIM?), but this one could really work. It comes with a devoted and growing set of developers and users, much of which is rabidly anti-Microsoft (and that can't hurt).

I'd say that the future looks brighter for Novell now than it has in years. Let's hope they keep up the momentum and start getting deliverables into the hands of the users.

 

[Gc2]

gillis,

Most of the posted replies to your question
have been direct, and very incisive. Mine
will be repetitive, but with my own experience added.

I have worked with Netware since version 2.2
and currently do now (ver 5.1) in a large lab
testing company. Even though we have Windows
NT and 2000 servers/workstations in our environment - our CIO is stuck on Netware
and that remains our primary NOS for about
300+ servers nationwise.

Same thing with the US Environmental Protection Agency - which I worked at
in the mid-1990's.

Bottom line is that Novell is still a viable
company - which garners much respect in the
industry - and simply has a good, stable (and
possibly one of the best security-wise)operating systems for organizations.

And now that Novell has finally started
to learn the meaning of the term "marketing"
over the past couple of years... More ideas
and better ideas may prosper.

On the personal side however - be realistic
for what you see with your own eyes in the
industry... Gear your certs toward MS, with
some, but lesser - focus on Novell learning &
knowledge maintainence. If you ever lose or leave your current employement - this will definitely be important. I do "keep-up" but
no Novell certs for me since the beginning
days of Netware 5...

Currently just completing work on MS 2000 certification.

 

[stevenriz]

I don't have the time to put in all my .02 but now that I am installing NEtware 6.5 I see a lot of options not ever available on 4.11 which I run (if I didn't lose a UPS, it would have been up for over a year without rebooting, if you can say that about NT, 2000 or 2003, I would like to know about it). I would like to put netware 6.5 against XP or 2003 whatever they call it. Compare "apps" such as J2EE capabilities, webservers, iFolder like options and the list goes on forever. First we plan on working with the J2EE option to see if our main app runs on it. If so, there is another platform we are compatible with. Currently we run it on Solaris. Don't know much about MS but I am sure they do offer such things, but would tend to guess it would only be dog slow....

 

[stevenriz]

BTW - if we like 6.5, does anyone know if when we purchase a license if we need to rebuild the server from scratch or can we just install the license on the beta/demo copy?
Steve

 

[gillis]

To all who've taken the time to respond to my initial question - just wanted to break in and say a big THANK YOU! I know you all have to be as busy as I so your input is very much appreciated. There is now so much thought here I'll have to take it on vacation to digest it all

Thanks again, Jerry Giles (gillis)

 

[Ed Andres]

I guess I should jump in here too, being a hugh 'N' fan myself. Novell is no longer your file-n-print NOS of yesterday. While it is the best industrial strength file-n-print NOS on the market, you have to look past Netware and see the big picture. Their products like eDirectory, iFolder, iPrint, NetStorage, ZENWorks for Desktops, Servers, and Handhelds, GroupWise and now their Extend products are positioning them to have all the right tools to reduce cost and not have to 'Rip and Replace' a ton of legacy services. And by the way, all these services are based on open standards.

Novell has just taken a big stand for the Linux community and has made a big commitment to this up and coming NOS. Their Groupwise product is the most secure messaging and collaboration package on the market today and is gaining momentum. By 2004, Groupwise modules will be running on a Linux box and there will be a Linux and Mac client. eDirectory is already running on Linux, Sun Solaris, HPUX, etc . . There Extend products will run on any Java servlet engine.

Your probably wondering with all the Novell products being ported to other OS's why use Netware, well the big reason to go with Netware is that a big chunck of this stuff comes with the OS. Netware 6.5 will ship with (at no extra cost), iFolder, iPrint, 2-node cluster, Apache web server, Tomcat Servlet engine, MySQL, eDirectory, Extend Composer (Portal Services), Branch Office, and on . .

Should I mention the licensing? We'll save that for another thread.