Future of RPG? 1

[Vstar1100]

I know this is not a coding question, but I thought I would post it and get everyone's opinion.

I have been coding RPG for the past 10 years and it seems that the jobs are getting fewer and fewer.

Do you think RPG will be around for much longer or do you think it will slowly be phased out. I understand that there will always be an RPG (Just as there is still COBOL) but the offerings seem to be getting smaller and the salaries have taken a dive after Y2K and the economy.

I am currently working on JDEdwards World and everyone I talk to is switching to JDEdwards OneWorld which is coded using C++ I am told. It just seems like companies are wanting the new GUI standards.

 

[onpnt]

well, RPG will undoubtably be used less frequently as time goes by. That's more so due to system cahnges in companies though. I think java is the one to take it over though from what I've seen in the newly found requirments for the iSeries positions in this area. The one comment I would like to point out is I've heard the term "COBOL will become phased out" for years now and it's still present with force in everyday workings. RPG has it's place and will always for what it is best designed for and best used for. Although as I see it becoming more and more of a actual programming language with the functionality that most others have, it will even more so keep it's face in what we do.

_____________________________________________________________________

http://www.onpntwebdesigns.com

 

[jmd0252]

RPG will never disappear, just as COBOL will never disappear. Since computers have become so common place. Every business has one now, and with the hardware, comes the sovftware. So the idea of what language the software is written in, becomes a "no question". the question is what software do we use to support the business activity, so the business being profitable becomes the question. What software company advertise's more,, Microsoft,, what would happen if Microsoft produced an RPG compiler, advertised that they use multiple AS400's, they use JD Edwards to run their financials. Perceptions change. College does not have RPG classes, why,, no one to teach them,, and no demand for them. RPG programmers are the most creative people I know. RPG will be around for a long time. As to the JD Edwards comment,,, they will never get rid of the "green screen" World product, now that they are again making modifictaions, and updates. It has a long life in front of it, because it is too profitable.

 

[RedMage1967]

I agree, RPG will never go away. At the last user's group meeting I attended, I heard a quote from IBM, I believe, "Right now there is approxmately 2 million lines of RPG code out there right now. Ten years from now, we expect there to be between 2.5 to 3 million lines of RPG code out there." I may have mis-worded the quote, but the gist is, RPG isn't going any where. I think it's interesting when I talk to my NT systems administrator here at work, he keeps telling me IBM is going out of business, they're going to phase out the iSeries and Microsoft has never owned an AS/400's. Yeah, right.

RedMage1967
IBM Certifed - RPG IV Progammer

 

[minnetonkan]

I agree that RPG is on the way out. I've been programming RPG since 1970, its about time. I don't agree on the quoted number of RPG lines misquoted by IBM. I've known many installations that had more than a milliion lines of code. The correct number is probably in the billions. Here is some interesting stats-If you search DICE.com with 30,000 tech jobs available.
RPG shows up 232 times. Cobol 574, Java 4564, VB 2027, NT 2349, Basic 2386 and for the language I used before 1970 - FORTRAN, 80. The most important asset to have as a programmer is business/people knowledge. Programming languages are like religious denominations. People only see the one they're most intimatly involved with. Can't focus on the forest with all that tree involvment.

 

[Skittle]

RPG may exist for some time yet but there is no doubt the demand has dropped dramatically. RPG does not even make it in the top 20 skills anymore.

To me that is the key factor. Not how many millions of lines of code there are out there or how many more IBM says will exists in the future.

I believe AS400 development is pretty much static now.
Most of the work is done outside of the AS400 on systems that interface with the AS400. Ignoring the technical benefits and perils of this strategy I feel you have to go where the jobs are. I am busy learning SQL server and VB buecause there are jobs a plenty in these areas.



Dazed and confused

 

[Vstar1100]

Thanks everyone for your intput. It appears that it can be a mixed bag. I must agree that the job market has become static. I have gone back to college to learn different things. Currently I have a C programming class which I think may help me to get to know the other side a little. I have had a VB class before, but not anything that would let me hit the ground running.

My only fear is this, How do we go about getting a job with a new programming language but still get paid what we do today? The AS/400 market took a huge jump just before Y2K and salaries increased dramatically. I remember that beginning programers with no experience were coming out of school making 40-50K to start. I am currently at the Senior level so I am in excess of 65K. Who would hire a beginner, in a new language, for this type of salary?

Sure I have been programming for over 10 year and have the business knowledge, but I feel that businesses have to ask themselves, what can he do for us today? and Is he worth that kind of money?

With the AS/400, there is not as large of a supply of programmers as Java or even C. Colleges are turning them out by the numbers each and every year. I would think that there would be plenty of young programmers that would work for 1/2 of what some of us RPG programmers make. Most of the people I talk to, would not even want to lear the green screen. They say it is moving backwards and they want to do visual development. I believe this is what has given RPG the only programming edge that it has.

Vstar1100

 

[Skittle]

I agree about salary.
If I move to a job with something else I expect a lower salary. Its bad news but its a fact of life. I am in the fortunate position that I can spend a large proportion of my time in my my AS400 job of working with the new stuff as well.

So by the time I need to make a move, I can claim a couple of years of VB and SQL server. .net will be my next target.

I expect that over a couple of years my salary would rise again anyway.

The key in IT is to always spend half a day every week learning a new skill - even if you think you will never need it.


Life in IT is hard.

Dazed and confused

 

[PeteJohnston]

From other things I've heard I think minnetonkan is probably pretty close with his lines of code estimate, but the number of jobs is definately dropping. Some of it is down to companies moving to different platforms - a company I was working with last year are moving to SAP/R3 and will be cross-training some people and getting rid of others. They expect to get rid of the AS400s in 2-3 years. They've also decided to outsource their IT development and help desk to India (the company is in the south of England) so an IT department of about 50 will be reduced to 10!

Also, the user demand for sexy front ends has resulted in less RPG and more VB or Java with the AS400 just used to hold the data. I've started catching VB contracts and, like Skittle, I'm looking to get into .net as soon as I can. The combination of RPG and VB skills is still fairly rare at the moment so that is helping me get work.

I don't think RPG is likely to disappear altogether and it might be better in a few years - rates for COBOL contractors seem to be getting better because they are so rare!

PeteJ
(Contract Code-monkey)

It's amazing how many ways there are to skin a cat
(apologies to the veggies)