frustration with browsers

[kallywag]

I'm really having trouble understanding the differences in how netscape and IE interpret the box model. I've read about 100 different explanations of how ie5.x and ie6(quirks mode) interpret the box model so that the width setting includeds padding and border, and netscape only includes the content in the width setting. but all of these explanations have also said that ie6 will interpret a page with a strict DOCTYPE to be standards compliant and will read the page just like nestcape. And I know about the box model hack that fixes this for ie5.x. yet even with a strict DOCTYPE, I still find inequalities in the box model interpretation between IE6 and Netscape. So I set up a little test page to make sure I wasn't going crazy (although I'm close):

http://www.stromengineering.com/new/test.html

Everything seems to render the same except for one very annoying thing. The left margin on the floating inner div is seemingly rendered in quirks mode by IE6, but not in Netscape. If you line up the two browsers with the same page, all the positioning lines up, except for the horizontal postion of the inner div. Could someone please explain this to me?

 

[tviman]

I wouldn't even attempt to give you an explanation as to the whys and wherefores of browser inequities except to say that even though there are "standards", there is nothing that forces a browser manufacturer to use the standards. In the case of Microsoft, they have elected to use some of the "standards" while creating others of their own that don't work in any other browser. As a web develpoper, all this causes you to have thinning hair and a large liquor bill!

There's always a better way. The fun is trying to find it!

 

[kallywag]

After browsing the markup of several CSS gurus including simplebits.com, I've come to the realization that you simply can't employ left or right margin settings with a floating div and expect cross-browser compatibility. Instead, you must add in an extra container div around the floating div you are attempting to position, and set the padding of the container div to taste. This should guarantee IE6(strict) and Netscape 7 will render the box model identically. Until I come upon another annoying glitch, that is. But then again, I've been way to lazy to actually read through the thousands of pages of documentation that W3C releases explaining xhtml web standards, so I could have just been torturing myself over something really simple like that. Either way, IE sucks, and I'm really dreading moving on to the next step, the box model hack for ie5.x. Should I even bother? Is there a site that keeps up to date surveys on the amount of people still using ie5? also, if you're still reading this, is there a way to install ie6 and ie5 on the same machine? ok i really need to make myself a blog.

 

[tviman]

I've been way to lazy to actually read through the thousands of pages of documentation that W3C releases explaining xhtml web standards

And even if you had, you would still be in the EXACT same position as you are now. I'll say it again, there is nothing that forces the browser manufacturers from using any standards.

Either way, IE sucks

You won't get any argument on this from me...

Is there a site that keeps up to date surveys on the amount of people still using ie5?

Probably, but when I see those things, I always ask myself where they get their data? (Perhaps it's just a phone call to MS?)

is there a way to install ie6 and ie5 on the same machine?

I don't think so, but if there is, this is the place to find out how.... The executable (iexployer.exe) is the same for all versions and unless you installed it on another drive that had another OS installed, I doubt you could make it work.

There's always a better way. The fun is trying to find it!

 

[philote]

Check out

http://www.quirksmode.org/

Among much other great information, it has a section on how to run multiple explorers:

http://www.quirksmode.org/index.html?/browsers/multipleie.html

I didn't see anything there on your particular problem.

IE seems to be doubling the margin on the floating div, though I can't fathom why. I've wished many times that IE had an equivalent to Mozilla's DOM Inspector.

 

[tviman]

is there a way to install ie6 and ie5 on the same machine?

I don't think so, but if there is, this is the place to find out how....

See what I mean! This place is great!!!

There's always a better way. The fun is trying to find it!

 

[philote]

I found some more info by doing a google search for "ie strict box model margin double":

http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum83/1997.htm

http://65.109.140.59/test/IEFloat2xMargin.html

Let me know if this helps.