Frames problems in Netscape

rgstewart · May 17, 2002

I have a frameset document which works perfectly in IE, but not in Netscape. Here's the layout of the frameset:

3 columns - 1*,750,1*
the middle column has 5 rows - 1*,75,306,19,1*

The probelm is that in Netscape the middle colum won't assign the rows properly. As best I can tell, they are being allocated something along the lines of - 1*,70,300,17,1*. Anybody any ideas about why this happens?

xutopia · May 17, 2002

first question. what version of Netscape? Gary

http://www.xutopia.com

Haran

rgstewart · May 17, 2002

4.6 ... Old version!

xutopia · May 17, 2002

I think the problem actually has to do with the fact that NN4.x (also known as Netscrape) does not support

<FRAMESET cols="1*,250,3*">
...the rest of the definition...
</FRAMESET>

syntax but only this type of syntax :

<FRAMESET cols="*,250,*">
...the rest of the definition...
</FRAMESET>

Hope this helps.

Gary

http://www.xutopia.com

Haran

rgstewart · May 18, 2002

Well, actually no - that doesn't help too much, although I didn't know that. I originally used the * without a multiplier, but it did the same thing. I seems to be misinterpreting how much space there actually is in the browser or something.

I REALLY need some help with this (aside from the fact that it's driving me up the walls I need to get this project moving)!

Jimuniguy · May 20, 2002

Hi,

Can you please provide your entire frameset code please, and I will have a fiddle.

Cheers

James

Jimuniguy · May 20, 2002

Hi,

This works for me in NS:

Code:

<html>
<head>
<title>Untitled Document</title>
<meta http-equiv=&quot;Content-Type&quot; content=&quot;text/html; charset=iso-8859-1&quot;>
</head>

<frameset cols=&quot; 1*,750,1*&quot; frameborder=&quot;YES&quot; border=&quot;1&quot; framespacing=&quot;1&quot; bordercolor=&quot;#000000&quot;> 
  
<frame src=&quot;UntitledFrame-4.htm&quot;>
  <frameset rows=&quot;1*,75,306,19,1*&quot; frameborder=&quot;YES&quot; border=&quot;1&quot; framespacing=&quot;1&quot; bordercolor=&quot;#000000&quot;> 
  	<frame name=&quot;Frame a&quot; scrolling=&quot;NO&quot; noresize src=&quot;UntitledFrame-8.htm&quot;>
	<frame name=&quot;Frame b&quot; scrolling=&quot;NO&quot; noresize src=&quot;UntitledFrame-9.htm&quot;>
	<frame name=&quot;Frame c&quot; scrolling=&quot;NO&quot; noresize src=&quot;UntitledFrame-10.htm&quot;>
	<frame name=&quot;Frame d&quot; scrolling=&quot;NO&quot; noresize src=&quot;UntitledFrame-11.htm&quot;>
	<frame name=&quot;Frame e&quot; scrolling=&quot;NO&quot; noresize src=&quot;UntitledFrame-12.htm&quot;>


  <frame src=&quot;frame.htm&quot;>
</frameset>
<frame src=&quot;UntitledFrame-6.htm&quot;>
</frameset>

<noframes><body bgcolor=&quot;#FFFFFF&quot;>

</body></noframes>
</html>

Does it work ok for you?

james

rgstewart · May 20, 2002

It's not a case of it now working ... Netscape doesn't allow the correct pixel size for the nested frameset (something that is REALLY hard to spot unless you have size-specific content to put in the frames).

Here's the URL for the site ... you can have a look and see what I'm talking about.

http://www.porcupine.fsworld.co.uk/portfolio/frames.htm

I appreciate the help!

Jimuniguy · May 20, 2002

Hi,

Yes I see your problem.

1) Stop using nested tables within nested tables, Netscape has a huge problem with these and though it wont solve your problem, it does not help.

Your best bet is to rearrange your site using this framset:

Code:

<html>
<head>
<title>Untitled Document</title>
<meta http-equiv=&quot;Content-Type&quot; content=&quot;text/html; charset=iso-8859-1&quot;>
</head>

<frameset rows=&quot;*,75,306,19,*&quot; frameborder=&quot;NO&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; framespacing=&quot;0&quot;> 
<frame name=&quot;frame1&quot; scrolling=&quot;NO&quot; src=&quot;frame1.htm&quot;>
<frame name=&quot;frame1&quot; scrolling=&quot;NO&quot; src=&quot;frame1.htm&quot;>
<frameset cols=&quot;*,750,*&quot; frameborder=&quot;NO&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; framespacing=&quot;0&quot;> 
<frame name=&quot;frame1&quot; scrolling=&quot;NO&quot; src=&quot;frame1.htm&quot;>
<frame name=&quot;frame1&quot; scrolling=&quot;NO&quot; src=&quot;frame1.htm&quot;>
<frame name=&quot;frame1&quot; scrolling=&quot;NO&quot; src=&quot;frame1.htm&quot;>
</frameset>
<frame name=&quot;frame1&quot; scrolling=&quot;NO&quot; src=&quot;frame1.htm&quot;>

<frame name=&quot;frame1&quot; scrolling=&quot;NO&quot; src=&quot;frame1.htm&quot;>&quot;></frameset>
<noframes><body bgcolor=&quot;#FFFFFF&quot;>

</body></noframes>
</html>

You will have to re-arrange your code slightly, but it will still produce the same affect and it also works with netscape

Hope this helps

James

rgstewart · May 20, 2002

Thanks for the suggestion - I'll try it out and get back to you. Just out of interest, how will nested tables effect framesets? I didn't think that was an issue. I didn't know Netscape had a problem with nested tables (I'll be sure to remember for the future), but I'm sure that has nothing to do with the frame problem. Any idea what the deal with the frames is?

rgstewart · May 20, 2002

Okay - I reshuffled the HTML and tried your frameset. Results are up on:

http://www.porcupine.fsworld.co.uk/portfolio/

As you can probably tell (from the fact that I'm hassling you again), it didn't work. Fine in IE, completely useless in Netscape. Any more suggestions, or should I just admit defeat?!

deecee · May 20, 2002

do what i do and say #@$^$#^ to nutscrap

its a small problem thats not worth going bald over besides there comes a time in everyones life when they need to update their browsers excuse me can i have some more

rgstewart · May 20, 2002

Sorry - not an option. Netscape 4x isa crappy range of browsers, but you'd be amazed how many people still insist on using them. The 2 browsers EVERY site MUST work in are Netscape and IE. Like I said, not an option.

Jimuniguy · May 20, 2002

Hi,

Ok, I will look at it in the morning, its 0125 BST here and I have been out and can just about type this (-: Hence you will have to wait till the morning!

Nite.

xutopia · May 21, 2002

we could as web developers provide an ultimatum whenever we can : "Upgrade or see nothing".

Gary

http://www.xutopia.com

Haran

Jimuniguy · May 21, 2002

Hi, Good morning, [morning]

After looking at your code, I fiddled (aka I re-wrote it) and the final version can be found for preview here:

http://members.tripod.com/J_EAT/James.htm

or you can download the zip here

http://members.tripod.com/J_EAT/Tekips.zip

Now, I know its not 100% perfect, the lines need to be added above the menu, and the corners on the menu need to be correctly aligned but I am sure you can do this ok.

Tips for future:

Stop using
Code:
```
TBODY
```
. Its annoying and netscape falls over itself with it.
Netscape needs to have something in each table square, otherwise it collapses it (your original problem was this)
Try to stear cleer of using background in tables, its something IE does very well and yet netscape falls apart on, espically if something else is within the table cell
No need to always use tables as shown by the lines on the bottom.[/list[

Well hope you like, it works in Netscape 4.7 no problems, so it should be ok for previous verions too.

Let me know please.

James

Jimuniguy · May 21, 2002

Hi, Good morning, [morning]

After looking at your code, I fiddled (aka I re-wrote it) and the final version can be found for preview here:

http://members.tripod.com/J_EAT/James.htm

or you can download the zip here

http://members.tripod.com/J_EAT/Tekips.zip

Now, I know its not 100% perfect, the lines need to be added above the menu, and the corners on the menu need to be correctly aligned but I am sure you can do this ok.

Tips for future:

Stop using
Code:
```
TBODY
```
. Its annoying and netscape falls over itself with it.
Netscape needs to have something in each table square, otherwise it collapses it (your original problem was this)
Try to stear cleer of using background in tables, its something IE does very well and yet netscape falls apart on, espically if something else is within the table cell
No need to always use tables as shown by the lines on the bottom.

Well hope you like, it works in Netscape 4.7 no problems, so it should be ok for previous verions too.

Let me know please.

James

Jimuniguy · May 21, 2002

Hi,

Actually that ZIP Folder is wrong, try here instead

http://members.tripod.com/J_EAT/Tektipszip.zip

Cheers

James

crazyboybert · May 21, 2002

i havent got time to read all the above but in case it hasnt been mentioned Netscape will never exactly replicate a frame based layout specified in pixels. This is because for some reason best known to the bods at netscape when rendering a frameset the browser converts all pixel values for frames into percentages. Obviously this means rounding in places subtly changing the size of the individual frames. There is nowt you can do about it.

Hope this helps

rob

rgstewart · May 21, 2002

Now THAT was what I wanted to know! Thanks for attempting to help, JamesUniguy (even the last effort you made didn't work - sorry!), but all I needed to know was the piece of info delivered by Rob.

Now I think I can safely put up a splash page stating that you either need IE or Netscape 6 to view the site. There's no way the frameset will work in NS 4.

Thanks Rob.

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