Formula to determine cost for Wiring new building? 2

[KIMBARQ]

Is there anyway to determine what it would cost me to have a new facility wired for paging. This facility is 3 floors.
By the same token, is there a formula to determine what it would cost to wire the same building with 3 floors, an IDF on each floor and a total 200 CAT 6 duplex I/Os.

Kim Joseph
Franklinton, NC

 

[GoTellBigDaddy]

I can offer a few guidelines and if you could check out:

http://www.bicsi.org/

for authoritative info on cabling methods, etc.

As for basic question- in the "rough" here's a few pointers.

Each floor - what is the square footage ?

Each floor - is the ceiling acoustic tile/drop ceiling ? If not then what is it and what is the ceiling height ?

Each floor - dry wall and metal stud construction ? IF not then what is it ?

Is this new construction or existing USED and occupied space ?

How are the three IDFs interconnected ?

Now for paging questions ?

Visit:

http://www.bogen.com/support/learninglibrary/

and get the details.

It all dependz.

 

[KIMBARQ]

Each floor - what is the square footage ? 10,000SQ FT PER FLOOR

Each floor - is the ceiling acoustic tile/drop ceiling ? YES
If not then what is it and what is the ceiling height ? 9FT EXCEPT CAFETERIA AREA WHICH IS 11FT

Each floor - dry wall and metal stud construction ?
YES DRY WALL AND METAL STUD CONSTRUCTION

Is this new construction or existing USED and occupied space ? NEW CONSTRUCTION AGAINST EXISTING CONSTRUCTION AND THE COMMON WALL WILL BE REMOVED.

How are the three IDFs interconnected ? FIBER

Kim Joseph
Franklinton, NC

 

[GoTellBigDaddy]

AND... 200 Cat 6 Duplex I/Os ahhh, you mean 400 cable drops per floor with two cables terminated on a Duplex jack, yes ?

Kim- I'm not sure where in NC you are (Triangle area, coast, or Eagles Nest Mountain Area !) so there may be a HUGE variance in price here. Vendors/contractors need to walk your site for the things unseen and spend time with you to discuss the details about what you are implementing.

Here's what I'd consider:

ALTERNATIVEs

OPTION 1

1. If your local area is under a) LV permits and or b) Union labor then NO BRAINER: get the local electrician working your job to quote you ROUGH IN prices for the cabling. ROUGH IN only. There are PROs and CONs that you will hear.

2. Get quotes from telecom/datacom shop to perform termination, testing, certification and documentation.

OPTION 2

Get quotes from structured wiring install companies.

OPTION 3

Get quotes from local telecom/datacom companies that do cabling.


Compare these against the quotes you are probably already getting now, and still lying on the floor agonizing over.

It will be some dollars. T

here will be a variance in price that most would say- this just doesn't make sense. Structured Wiring systems use proven products- costs more with the name, training, product line, etc... than what someone with a fleet of 3-4 trucks would charge using whatever the local supply house has in stock as long as it's Cat6. I suggest that you keep it ALL within a BRAND and not to sound BRANDing but the statement of Siemens cabling vs AT&T cabling on their cable performance varies with let's say an ICC patch panel vs Brand-X in a mail order catalog. The methods or professionalism used in installing the drops throughout the process- also factors in. Then, where your IDFs are located- are they central, ideal, and well equipped to handle power, PoE, air, lighting, etc.... More questions, concerns, considerations.

The other consideration is the work areas for the cabling work. If the areas are somewhat free and clear and open for lets say 1-2 days per floor- the knock out time with a crew of 3-4 will be 1 floor per day for the rough in. I'm citing work that we've done in the past using Siamese cables in a 10,000 sqft office- 7.5 hours for 3 to do just the rough in. That's a crew of 3 good techs that are motivated- add 1 bad one and double the time.

Also- you didn't mention phone system and other things such as faxs, modems, postage machines, etc. I could assume you are using 1 Cat6 for the phone and 1 for the LAN. Regardless- this configuration of 2 drops per faceplate sounds limiting. Are you taking into account: network printers, phones, network devices, dial up lines - private lines, etc.... ? Once the cabling is in place- you don't want to drag a crew back in for MACs.

One major other thing- folks like to save money and they often do it in the wrong way when it comes to cabling. I'll start with THIS IS A WARNING ! Or, this is my opinion- and you can check with DuPont Corporation in the old BLUE BOOK of cabling methods.... NEVER install CATx cabling unless it is PLENUM rated. I'm not addressing fire codes here but other reasons. So- it's more than an opinion- check with the manufacturer of the product we know as Teflon and the family of Teflon products.

If your phones are IP then consider using IP Paging gear although the industry is catching up- there's some need IP Page wares out there:

http://www.barix.com/index_en.php?h...products/annuncicom_ic.php?group=professional

http://www.ipintercom.com/

http://voip.valcom.com/bicsitalk-final.ppt#2

http://www.bogen.com/products/pdfs/voippdfs/MVP130s.pdf

 

[KIMBARQ]

Thanks bigdaddy,

Bogen is giving me a free quote for the paging (not paging wiring) so that is taken care of. The electrician we use is going to give me a quote for the paging wiring, and a wiring contractor I've used in the past is going to do me a favor of walking the site and providing what I might expect from who ever wins the bid....only if I buy him a beer and some seedy bar.

The links you provided were great.

Kim Joseph
Franklinton, NC

 

[rhowlett]

Get a real telecom cabling company to do the work. Electricians may treat the Cat6 like any wire they handle, which would be bad for it. Stretching or not keeping a close eye on the bend radius of the cables will cause you problems either right away or down the road.

Based on what you listed, it's not going to be a cheap job if it's done right.

Get a vendor that is going to back the wiring with a 25 year warranty. If they are Ortronics certified, they can do that by only using Berktek and Ortronic's parts.

 

[dhnl]

http://www.ampnetconnect.com/howtoorder/PartnerLookup.asp?CT=CON&CC=US&SP=NC

 

[KIMBARQ]

I'm fighting for a real telecom company to do the wiring, but they have done things so strange here for so long. I just started with this company a month or so ago. You won't beleive what I had to do to get 2 duplex jacks per office instead of one. In every other office there is just one duplex jack. to bad for your network printer, to bad for your dial-up, to bad for your other pc.


Thanks

Kim Joseph
Franklinton, NC

 

[GoTellBigDaddy]

Kim for future reference: check out the 3Com Network Jack and you can power this jack remotely ! Gives you more ports on one cable and they are SWITCHED.

As noted above there are PROS and CONS to using electricians and the same applies to anyone else- warranty or not- the techs doing the job ultimately decide how it all goes in...rough or not, sort of speak.



The older I get, the less I know

 

[bkrike]

I had to give bigdaddy a star for such a detailed answer.

Kim: the way it works where I come from is the electricians put in the mudrings (junction boxes that the faceplate screws to) and conduit (the conduit goes through the walls top plate to just above grid ceiling height.) Then the cabling contractors come in and install and terminate the cabling. I doubt you are going to get anyone to warranty cabling as an all inclusive job if they did not do both the install and the termination.