for us not english talking people 2

[chrissie1]

I just found this forum, so correct me if this thread is in the wrong forum.

But I think you english speaking folk should try to use less dificult words so that US not speaking english folk can understand.

Christiaan Baes
Belgium

What a wonderfull world - Louis armstrong

 

[Stella740pl]

Christiaan,

I am one of those not speaking English folks, or I would rather say that I speak English, but it is not my first language.

I got to say that those for whom English is their native language have no way whatsoever to know which words would be difficult for others. For some reason, many of them think that short words are easier than long ones. They are not! It depends very much on your first language.

Say, I have much less trouble with "long" words because many of them are very close in my first language. They were borrowed from French, German, English, Latin and Greek at different times (although they could have changed meaning slightly over the years), and are usually not so hard for me. The "short" words are a different story.

In general, I noticed that some people, when they hear an accent, they start to speak slowly, loudly and in short words. For goodness sake, I'm not hearing-impared and not mentally retarded, I just have first language other than English. If I didn't get what you said I would ask you to repeat, to explain, or to spell out a word for me.

Stella

 

[CajunCenturion]

If you come across a phrase or word that you are having some difficulty, please feel free to post here, and we'll do our best to help explain its meaning.

Good Luck
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[SQLSister]

Stella, I know what you mean. We used to have a Phillipino immigrant working here and management always talked down to him as if he were stupid. The real problem was they were stupid, not him. They were incapable of understanding what he was talking about even if he had not had an accent, but they always blamed it on ihis accent.

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[Dimandja]

They were incapable of understanding what he was talking about even if he had not had an accent

I have had this exact situation happen to a friend of mine today!

 

[rosieb]

Sadly there is a group of people who equate a strong foreign accent with stupidity, I think their logic is "if I can speak English, anyone who can't must be less intelligent that me".

I once listened to a colleague patronise a Brazilian co-worker (who spoke Portuguese, Spanish and Italian, but had limited English). After the Brazilian left the room my colleague asked "Why does he speak Portuguese, Brazil's nowhere near Portugal? Asked what he would expect someone from Brazil to speak, he replied "Brazilian, of course". He wasn't joking!

Rosie
"Never express yourself more clearly than you think" (Niels Bohr)

 

[Stella740pl]

"Sadly there is a group of people who equate a strong foreign accent with stupidity"
The saddest thing is, the members of that group are often in a position to make serious decisions for those with an accent. My daughter was in elementary school when we came to USA. She didn't get an advanced math class even the next school year after that, until after she completed ESL class, even though her English AND math skills were already more than sufficient for that.

Couple of years ago I asked a woman on the street for direction. (I wanted to walk an equivalent of about two stops, to do some shopping.) She never told me neither what I asked her, nor that she doesn't know. Instead, with a compassionate look on her face, she explained to me that it's too long a distance to walk, explained where I can find public transportation, asked if I know how to use it (!!), asked if I have the money for the trip (!!!), asked if I know where I want to go (!!!!) and, of course, how long I am in the country. Well, at that time I was living in the country for over 7 years, and was working for a governmental agency for 1.5 or so years already.

 

[ESquared]

Hi Christiaan,

My fiancée is Brazilian and is still learning English. (Although she does a good job!) Even though I have known her for more than a year, I still don't know what words she will know and what words she won't. She often knows words I would think are hard and doesn't know words I would think are easy. She still has trouble with "to run out [of something]" even though I've explained it a couple times. But she has no problem with words such as archive, endocrine, spermatozoa, epithelium, onomatopoeia, and dissonance. I don't even know with my own native-English-speaking friends when they will stumble on a word that I assume everyone knows (the most recent one was 'smarmy').

Generally, when I write, I try to use the perfect word to convey the meaning I intend. Sometimes that word is a little more uncommon than other times. When I am aware that my audience may not be familiar with the word, I still use it, but I also throw in a brief explanation. I try to make it all fit together without sounding as though I am one the one hand intentionally using hard words, or on the other hand as if I am lecturing and explaining what the person might well know extremely well!

Other times, when I don't know there is a need for me to throw in the extra explanatory phrase, people have to ask for clarification or go look something up in the dictionary. If my girlfriend has to have lots of patience with me when I use such words, the other side of the coin is that I have to have lots of patience with her when she has trouble conveying her meaning to me. The reasons are different (I use hard words, and she doesn't know the words), but the communication problem is the same.

Oh... also, half the time she has to be patient with me for explaining things she already understands or I've already explained before. In the end it's all about grace and give-and-take.

Honestly, I would say that if someone is using somewhat hard words, you could take it as a compliment that they have a high opinion of your intelligence and comprehension... as several people in the thread have suggested, deliberately using small words to a non-native English speaker is often a sign of contempt.

E²

 

[Stella740pl]

ESquared,

The word "smarmy" you assume everyone knows I had to look up in the dictionary, but I had no problem with most of the "hard" words your fiancée knows. Well, I had to look up "onomatopoeia", because I understood only the first part of it. One of my Asian coworkers was once impressed when I told him without thinking a split second that the ear and throat doctor he needs would be found under "Otolaryngology" in our insuranse book. As I said before, often English-speaking people assume those "long" words to be harder than other. Well, probably they are, for bearers of some languages more than for other, but you can never make any universal assumption. Many people, especially those who speak only one language, don't think twice about the origins of the words, and don't realize that the "hard" words could be nearly the same in many other languages.

 

[rosieb]

Stella
A lot of it is down to word roots, if you have a smattering of Latin or Greek - many European/US words become obvious.

I can read (very) limited amounts of Italian, French & Spanish because I know a bit of French, a bit of Latin, a few other odds and ends, and can stick them all together. Anything else and I'm completely lost. (Tho' I can manage "please", "thanks" and "beer" in a few more languages.)

I really envy anyone who is competent in more than one language.

Rosie
"Never express yourself more clearly than you think" (Niels Bohr)

 

[ESquared]

I don't assume everyone knows it any more, not after my native-English-speaking friends didn't know it.

 

[Dimandja]

[...]a bit of Latin, a few other odds and ends[...]

My fiancee (she doesn't like "girlfriend" - is russian and learned english in the USA, as I did). We communicate mainly in English - and in some russian when I can manage it.

We share an interest in computer programming and can talk about it all day long. But, the interesting thing is she or I can pick up meanings of new words (in either russian, french or what she calls my too american English) when those words have either a greek or latin origin. So, when I attempt to speak russian to her, I make sure to use words I know come from those two sources.

It's not easy trying to fully communicate accross languages and culture but it sure is fun and a great adventure in discovery. For example, she would ask me how to say something in French, only to find out that the russians already appropriated it in their language.

 

[SteveGlo]

I've at one time or another studied Russian and Arabic formally and picked up a working vocabulary in several European languages so I hope that I have something to contribute. My experience is that most people have reacted well to my feeble attempts to converse in a language that is foreign to me - the effort is generally appreciated and the errors are forgiven. Unless it genuinely gets in the way of business the sort of people described above who treat people badly are probably not very pleasant people anyway just any excuse to act the bully.

 

[Stella740pl]

Rosie,
A lot of it is down to word roots, if you have a smattering of Latin or Greek - many European/US words become obvious.
Exactly.
... a few other odds and ends, and can stick them all together...
I know what you mean. Russian, Ukrainian, English, "odds and ends" from several other European languages, Latin, Greek and Hebrew give me some material to understand those "hard" words plus a little more. (Though English/American pronunciation gave me some hard time at first, even with the words I know.)

Although sometimes the words with the same roots have different meaning in different languages. I already posted this example from Russian and Polish in another thread. That same word that means 'employment' in Polish, in Russian means 'difficulty' or 'trouble'. Originates from the same word in both languages, though - from word 'trud' meaning 'work', 'labor'.

 

[Stella740pl]

Dimandja,
For some reason, I suspected for a while already that there is something unexplainably Russian about you. Now I know what it is: the bits of mentality that rub on you from a person when you are together for some time.

 

[Dimandja]

Touche!

 

[GwydionM]

My colleague asked "Why does he speak Portuguese, Brazil's nowhere near Portugal?

You might sensibly reply, why do US citizens speak English, when they are hardly any closer to England? (Though the language itself is of North-German origin, let it not be forgotten.)

------------------
A view from the UK

 

[johnwm]

I believe that Brazil was a Portuguese colony, as North America is a British colony. Most of the English language comes initially (whether via the Germanic, Hellenic or Romantic classical languges) from the Aryan, which comes from what is now (approximately) Northern India

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[LesleyW]

Johnwm, I think you wanted to say that North America **was** a British colony

 

[Dimandja]

Does **was** include Canada?