I am an MIS major going into my senior year of school. I have 3 internships under my belt and have had some great experience in system design and programming. I want to get a job at one of the big IT consulting firms such as Accenture,Booz Allen, AMS, BearingPoint, Braxton, or Cap Gemini to name a few. Is there anybody out their who has done it? Is there any advice you can give or experiences you can share?
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First Job out of College 3
- Thread starter AR1982
- Start date
AR1982 I'd say it looks like you're getting into this for good reasons. Be prepared for set-backs & dissapointments, that way you won't let them disillusion you. Also remember there are many routes to get where you want to go, if you don't get straight into one of the firms you're aiming for it doesn't mean you never will, you may even find you want to go in a completely different direction once you've been working for a while.
All the best with your plans
Sharon
(I've just read over my post, I sound like a fortune cookie! Sure the caffine'll kick in soon & change all that!)
All the best with your plans
Sharon
(I've just read over my post, I sound like a fortune cookie! Sure the caffine'll kick in soon & change all that!)
Ah to hear the the young, not yet influenced by the real world, mind. Very refreshing.
Its my understanding if you want to work for a consulting firm you need years of SOLID experience. (A new term I have seen in lots of job ads recently.)
Not only because they want you to know technology but you have to know business in general.
AJ
![[americanflag]](/data/assets/smilies/americanflag.gif "[americanflag] [americanflag]")
If at first you do not succeed, cheat!
Its my understanding if you want to work for a consulting firm you need years of SOLID experience. (A new term I have seen in lots of job ads recently.)
Not only because they want you to know technology but you have to know business in general.
AJ
If at first you do not succeed, cheat!
The phrase "Solid experience" I understand to mean that there are no gaps in employment - so for example if they want 18 months solid experience, they won't accept a year working at place X, then 3 months unemployed, then another 6 months at place Y, for example.
John
John
I though it meant that if you say you have 3 years experience with Oracle. You did say 80% of that time working with Oracle, not 10%. Because some people say they can work with something if they touched it once during employment.
AJ
If at first you do not succeed, cheat!
AJ
If at first you do not succeed, cheat!
CajunCenturion
Programmer
Another factor that somes into play with solid experience is the difference between 10 years of experience, and 1 year of experience 10 times.
Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
Gatorajc,
Well, this goes to show that we mean interpret things differently. The term is commonly used in the UK to stop people who have had lots of short term work moving back into a more long term role, but that doesn't mean that yours is not valid, I'm sure where you are it has that meaning.
It means what the advertiser wants it to mean.
John
Well, this goes to show that we mean interpret things differently. The term is commonly used in the UK to stop people who have had lots of short term work moving back into a more long term role, but that doesn't mean that yours is not valid, I'm sure where you are it has that meaning.
It means what the advertiser wants it to mean.
John
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2
- #9
needcoffee
MIS
AR1982,
As someone who started as a consultant, I say good luck. There are a few things to consider with the firms you are looking at. Please do not take this as discouragement, merely statements based on percentages of occurence.
Despite your grades, ability, etc. you will start towards the bottom of the ladder unless you have connections there. You will not be doing dev work but rather filling in what dev has laid out. You will not meet with clients and have very little interaction with them except for over the phone or e-mail.
As a developer you will need a mature understanding of your complete envirionment. By this I mean the clients' business processes and the languanges/ platforms you are using. You will need to excel at project management and organization. You will need lots of other skills and attributes that I don't have time to list.
My advice, take the entry level job and understand how the consultancy firm works. Take on everything you can there. Learn from those who are their and leave after about 2 years. Go after smaller firms where your experience will be valued and you can advance at a faster pace for a few years. You will also learn how differently they do business and, more importantly, the business processes of their clients. Then go back to the big firms and start to become the "surgeon" that you aspire to be.
Most of all, remeber to smile and enjoy life. It will reflect in your work and make you better.
Uh, anyone see where I left my mug...
![[morning]](/data/assets/smilies/morning.gif "[morning] [morning]")
needcoffee
As someone who started as a consultant, I say good luck. There are a few things to consider with the firms you are looking at. Please do not take this as discouragement, merely statements based on percentages of occurence.
Despite your grades, ability, etc. you will start towards the bottom of the ladder unless you have connections there. You will not be doing dev work but rather filling in what dev has laid out. You will not meet with clients and have very little interaction with them except for over the phone or e-mail.
As a developer you will need a mature understanding of your complete envirionment. By this I mean the clients' business processes and the languanges/ platforms you are using. You will need to excel at project management and organization. You will need lots of other skills and attributes that I don't have time to list.
My advice, take the entry level job and understand how the consultancy firm works. Take on everything you can there. Learn from those who are their and leave after about 2 years. Go after smaller firms where your experience will be valued and you can advance at a faster pace for a few years. You will also learn how differently they do business and, more importantly, the business processes of their clients. Then go back to the big firms and start to become the "surgeon" that you aspire to be.
Most of all, remeber to smile and enjoy life. It will reflect in your work and make you better.
Uh, anyone see where I left my mug...
needcoffee-
1
- #10
Ar1982
Hang out your own shingle and form a chapterS corp.
If you are willing to struggle for a couple of years, I highly recommend you become a self employed consultant.
Worried about your experience? You will get paid to learn. For a few years your consulting rates will need to be low, the price for experience
Been a full time consultant for over 10 years; after 2 years I had no need to advertise, works just flows to me. I never worry about my next check, being laid off, or office politics.
My clients treat me with a great deal of respect, which you will not receive as an employee, in most companies.
One of the great perks of free lancing is the varied work experiences; rarely do I work on a project where boredom sets in.
After about 5 years I was able to choose the clients I wanted; the ones with enough resources to provide me with toys to play with, and those with no problems with my pay scale.
Downside, the hours can be long, the learning can be intense, stress has to be managed carefully; I found being someone's employee far more stressful.
Later on if you want to become an employee, you're the one who provides the work references. Likely, one of your larger clients will offer you full time employment at some point.
Good Luck
Hang out your own shingle and form a chapterS corp.
If you are willing to struggle for a couple of years, I highly recommend you become a self employed consultant.
Worried about your experience? You will get paid to learn. For a few years your consulting rates will need to be low, the price for experience
Been a full time consultant for over 10 years; after 2 years I had no need to advertise, works just flows to me. I never worry about my next check, being laid off, or office politics.
My clients treat me with a great deal of respect, which you will not receive as an employee, in most companies.
One of the great perks of free lancing is the varied work experiences; rarely do I work on a project where boredom sets in.
After about 5 years I was able to choose the clients I wanted; the ones with enough resources to provide me with toys to play with, and those with no problems with my pay scale.
Downside, the hours can be long, the learning can be intense, stress has to be managed carefully; I found being someone's employee far more stressful.
Later on if you want to become an employee, you're the one who provides the work references. Likely, one of your larger clients will offer you full time employment at some point.
Good Luck
I'd have to agree with Technome.
My experience with big firms has been bitter to say the least.
I really wish I would have started grooming myself for entrepreneurial independence sooner.
I learned a lot from the big firms, true, but…they suck a lot of life out of you.
Best of luck, just the same.
-----
The death of dogma is the birth of reason.
My experience with big firms has been bitter to say the least.
I really wish I would have started grooming myself for entrepreneurial independence sooner.
I learned a lot from the big firms, true, but…they suck a lot of life out of you.
Best of luck, just the same.
-----
The death of dogma is the birth of reason.
"Hi,
technome, as a fresh grad from university, how is it possible that we become a free lance consultant? I suppose u are talking about gaining the experience first then start a company by ourselves"
My first business was a construction contractor, gifted hands but no experience. Did alright until I developed lower back problems. Became a building Engineer, for a school which needed a network; proceeded to created my first Novell network. During the next six years I picked up a small amount of computer side work. Went full time into this in 1992 ( time of recession), made little for the first two years; after that referrals have carried me nicely.
I have had two businesses which I started with basically nothing. By the time I became a consultant, thru self study, I had as much experience as someone with a BA, no more. During the first two lean years I studied/passed 20 certification tests (had little else to do).
Point being, this is a better economic time than in 1992. There is a great deal of work out there, especially on small business networks (and even home computers, which I don't need to do anymore).
If you start your own business you will be experience fear and doubt, but as time proceeds, those feelings fade, the work becomes very enjoyable.
technome, as a fresh grad from university, how is it possible that we become a free lance consultant? I suppose u are talking about gaining the experience first then start a company by ourselves"
My first business was a construction contractor, gifted hands but no experience. Did alright until I developed lower back problems. Became a building Engineer, for a school which needed a network; proceeded to created my first Novell network. During the next six years I picked up a small amount of computer side work. Went full time into this in 1992 ( time of recession), made little for the first two years; after that referrals have carried me nicely.
I have had two businesses which I started with basically nothing. By the time I became a consultant, thru self study, I had as much experience as someone with a BA, no more. During the first two lean years I studied/passed 20 certification tests (had little else to do).
Point being, this is a better economic time than in 1992. There is a great deal of work out there, especially on small business networks (and even home computers, which I don't need to do anymore).
If you start your own business you will be experience fear and doubt, but as time proceeds, those feelings fade, the work becomes very enjoyable.
I think your plan of hooking up with one of the big consulting firms is a good one. I went to work for CTG (Computer Task Group) right out of school (can't really recommend them - the in-house joke was that it stood for "Coders To Go"
. But I did learn alot about the different areas of software, the development process, and had some good mentors who shared their knowledge with me.
The important thing about consulting is what happens when the salesman sticks his head in your office and asks "You know xyz, right?" Your answer should be: "No, but if you authorize me to spend some money on some books, I can be an expert in two weeks". The second trick is knowing when your book knowledge isn't going to cut it. At that point you go back to the salesman and say "The client needs more in-depth knowledge. Can we bring in a specialist from another branch?" The salesmen love to hear this, as they can bill the new guy at $1000/day plus expenses (remember, the salesman typically gets a percentage of the business, so the higher the billing rate, the more he takes home!)
Other things to remember about being a consultant:
1. If working at a client site, you will get the crappiest desk, chair, and PC. They won't have been cleaned in years, and will likely be next to the bathroom (sharing a ventilator!) In some locations you won't have a phone, won't be allowed to listen to your music, and be subjected to their corporate Muzak(tm) all day. Don't worry about it - it's just that the client's employees come first in the little perks like this.
2. You will probably get paid more than the client people you're working with. Or at least billed out at a high rate. You should do everything you can to find out what your rate is -- it's a measure of how well your company and the marketplace values you.
3. You won't be invited to many meetings. And you won't get much input into the project's planning and decision-making. Don't worry about it - see point #2 above. You're here to learn new technologies, learn about the local IT environment, and network with other people.
4. One day the salesman will come by your desk and tell you to pack your stuff up. Don't take it personally. A couple of clients we had did this every year around the end of October because they ran out of money. Use the time on the bench to read some more books and become an expert on something else that looks lucrative.
5. After working on a number of projects, you'll have an impressive Resume, which you can then shop around to independent software vendors, firms who do their own internal development, etc. Try not to apply to a client you've worked at recently, as you probably signed a non-compete agreement with your consulting firm, and if there's even a hint of a lawsuit, you won't be able to get that dream job.
Good luck!
Chip H.
If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first
. But I did learn alot about the different areas of software, the development process, and had some good mentors who shared their knowledge with me.The important thing about consulting is what happens when the salesman sticks his head in your office and asks "You know xyz, right?" Your answer should be: "No, but if you authorize me to spend some money on some books, I can be an expert in two weeks". The second trick is knowing when your book knowledge isn't going to cut it. At that point you go back to the salesman and say "The client needs more in-depth knowledge. Can we bring in a specialist from another branch?" The salesmen love to hear this, as they can bill the new guy at $1000/day plus expenses (remember, the salesman typically gets a percentage of the business, so the higher the billing rate, the more he takes home!)
Other things to remember about being a consultant:
1. If working at a client site, you will get the crappiest desk, chair, and PC. They won't have been cleaned in years, and will likely be next to the bathroom (sharing a ventilator!) In some locations you won't have a phone, won't be allowed to listen to your music, and be subjected to their corporate Muzak(tm) all day. Don't worry about it - it's just that the client's employees come first in the little perks like this.
2. You will probably get paid more than the client people you're working with. Or at least billed out at a high rate. You should do everything you can to find out what your rate is -- it's a measure of how well your company and the marketplace values you.
3. You won't be invited to many meetings. And you won't get much input into the project's planning and decision-making. Don't worry about it - see point #2 above. You're here to learn new technologies, learn about the local IT environment, and network with other people.
4. One day the salesman will come by your desk and tell you to pack your stuff up. Don't take it personally. A couple of clients we had did this every year around the end of October because they ran out of money. Use the time on the bench to read some more books and become an expert on something else that looks lucrative.
5. After working on a number of projects, you'll have an impressive Resume, which you can then shop around to independent software vendors, firms who do their own internal development, etc. Try not to apply to a client you've worked at recently, as you probably signed a non-compete agreement with your consulting firm, and if there's even a hint of a lawsuit, you won't be able to get that dream job.
Good luck!
Chip H.
If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first
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