Fiber to link data closets 3

[jpm121]

We're rehabbing a building we just bought that's split into 2 halves (east side + west side with lobby between), so we've placed 2 data closets (one in each half). Point to point distance is roughly 200' and they're on the same floor. Most of the internal walls have been gutted so routing isn't an issue.

My initial thought was to use fiber to link the data closets. We'll have 2 POE Cisco switches in each closet for phones, cameras, etc. plus so I'm looking for gigabit connectivity for now but possibly 10G in the future (we try to plan for 5-10 years out for this type of project).

Everything on this project has to go through the architect and general contractor, who has an electrician already. They're talking about CAT-6 (no one had ever heard of CAT-6E before I asked) to link the data closets and stated that fiber would cost "thousands" to install. About 5 years ago I had a directional bore with fiber between 2 buildings and the whole shebang was only $5-7k as I recall, so something's missing here (I think it's a knowledgeable installer....)

All the ideas about "get a new electrician" and so forth aren't an option - I'm pretty new here and don't have that kind of clout. Yet. I don't think it's a great idea to try to track down a good cabling guy and bring him onto a union jobsite for a look-see.

I'm also not up to speed on all the 50 vs 62.5 and MM vs SM stuff, all I know is I want about 6 pairs of fiber terminated to patch panels that have connectors I can patch to a GBIC in my switch.

What should I be proposing, and how much should it cost (ballpark range)?

Thanks!

 

[planet910]

Hi,
Take a look at armored jacket multi-mode fiber, if you wanting to use fiber. Two rack mounted fiber boxes and 200 feet of fiber should cost less than $1500.00 installed. You can have all the fiber strands terminated or leave some strands dark. For the distance of two hundred feet, you could get away using Cat 5e cable to support gigabit speed. Using Cat 6 will give you more headroom, but more cost. Do not waste your money with Cat 6e, the standards are not approved, testing the Cat 6e cable is a joke, it will most likely end up like Cat 4 did. If you think you will have 10gig to the workstation, than go towards that direction. If your company is pushing big files such as CAD files than invest into the Cat 6 cable. All current VOip telephones only go up to 100 megabits.

 

[dearingkr]

I would strongly recommend fiber for your backbone instead of copper.
With the cost of copper these days, it should not be that much more to use fiber.

Also note that if you have any plans to migrate to 10gig, then use singlemode fiber.

MCSE CCNA CCDA

 

[resorttech12]

Honestly, if you look on-line you can see how much material costs. Barebones, you could probably get away with less than $800 in material. A fiber tech will fetch anywhere between $50-$100/hr, depending on market and company. If nothing else, call another for a quote, just to make sure you aren't getting fleeced.

What you are looking for:
Either an armored type indoor cable, or a standard indoor installed in "innerduct".

Is it a plenum or riser rated area? This will impact cost.

Ideally, you want at least 6 fibers (3 pair) of 50 micron MM. Personally, I would think SM over 200 ft is serious overkill, but will leave that to the dataheads. Look online to see what either of these fibers will support.

**The great thing about installing the "innerduct" is that you can replace or add backbone later without a lot of the hassle. As long as the route isn't filled with 90s and kinks, AND has a pull string in it, you could pull in a new fiber by yourself in a half hour. It's a beautiful thing!

You will want it installed preferrably rackmount, but a wall mount unit works as well. You can have almost any type of connector you want. I prefer the SC, but it is up to you. All you need is a patch cable from there to your Gbic. MAKE SURE PATCHES ARE THE SAME AS YOUR BACKBONE FIBER. You can get away with it being different, but will see loss.

Definitely go with the C6 on the install to the desk. 5E is getting nearer to obsolete.

If you need some backup to justify the expense of the fiber vs. copper, look at BICSI. Don't know what they say for certain, but I'm sure the STRONGLY recommend fiber as backbone. And they are widely accepted as the standard for low volt, as your architecht SHOULD know.

mk

 

[skip555]

dump the electrician and get a cable contractor , somebody who actually knows what he's doing

 

[DallasBPF]

You should really pull the cabling away from the GC and find yourself a cabling company to come in and do that type of installation. I am sorry, but electricians have no rhyme or reason to install voice/data cabling even if it is 'low voltage'.

So find yourself a cable contractor, get a copy of the electrical blue prints for the job site from the architect (I pray they put the voice/data drops on there), and have a pro do the install...

What area are you in? Maybe someone on here can recommend someone in that area...

------------------------------------
Dallas, Texas
Telecommunications Tech
CCVP, CCNA, Net+

CCNP in the works

 

[jpm121]

Thanks for all the replies everyone, sorry to be away for most of the day. A few remarks sort of directed to the group as a whole:

- We're going 100% CAT-6 to the desktop, most PCs will be connected to Cisco phones and 100 MBps is fine for them, plus the Cisco -GE phones just aren't worth the premium. I doubt we'll migrate to gigabit at the desktop until such a time as standard IP phones support it. For any rare cases I'm pretty comfortable that CAT-6 will do nicely.

- I'm bugging the GC to specify a decent brand of patch panel and cable if the elecrician keeps the job or subs it out (my hope is they bring in a real cabling contractor, but by that time the spec is locked down and whatever it says is what we end up with.)

- The project is in the Chicago suburbs, so there's no shortage of contractors around. Just a matter of getting approved to bring it back in house...

- Everything is plenum, per the GC spec.

- I'm all about doing my own research for prices, but I kept finding info that seemed dated and things seem to change relatively fast in the fiber world. Now that I've gotten more of a handle on MM vs SM and what carries what I can at least speak intelligently about the matter and call B.S. on the electrician if needed.

Thanks everyone for the feedback, I'll report back (probably with more questions).

 

[oldtimerbob]

50 micron mulit-mode fiber will give you 10 gig,get at least 6 strand,have them all terminated and tested (so you will have plenty in reserve for latter down the road).

Run at least two cat6 to each work station ( or more if you can afford it), terminate them to data patch panels and you will be set up for VOIP for the future using a plug and play set up for which ever jack you desire for the phone use. (now and later)
Good Luck,

Has been in the cabling business for about twenty years and is now the Sr PM for a cabling company located in the Los Angeles area.

http://www.globusinc.net

Also a General Class Amatuer Radio Operator.

 

[DallasBPF]

By the way, you are the customer to the GC/Architect, you do have say on what is going on. They will say the electrician can probably do it for less, but you will be better off in the long run doing it via a cable contractor...

And I agree with oldtimerbob, use the 50 micron MM but go armored so you do not need to have the conduit added. You will pay a lil more, but well worth it in the long run.

------------------------------------
Dallas, Texas
Telecommunications Tech
CCVP, CCNA, Net+

CCNP in the works

 

[jpm121]

If we're already running a 4" conduit between data closets would I be better off running innerduct inside it for the fiber, and if I do that do I need armored? We'll have probably a 25-pair for POTS service (fax machines, backup SRST) plus anything else that needs to get from here to thar. AT&T requested the same setup if we decide to bring their fiber and copper to the extended demarc in the first data closet, so we're planning to just extend it on to the second data closet.

Dallas, I completely get what you're saying, but in reality my employer is the customer of the the GC/architect, not me personally. I'm the a-hole who made their eyes bug out when I gave them the "how to do it right" presentation for data, video, and VOIP.

They hired me because they want to start doing things right but they will need some training, and some time to trust what I tell them -- like when I say that having Sparky the electrician do the network cabling might not be such a hot idea.

Appreciate it guys... fighting the good fight.

 

[DallasBPF]

You can run the fiber in that conduit, but you will need to put it in its own innerduct or use the armored, you do not want to have the fiber laying in that conduit with copper laying on it and the possibility of adding more in the future. Also, dealing with AT&T if you are wanting them to run their stuff in that conduit, they will REQUIRE their own conduit with only their cables in it... Lesson I had to learn the hard way...

About selling the fact that sparky shouldnt be doing the installation... ew... I get your point! Unfortunetly they will learn this lesson the very hard way... and you will be the a-hole that let them do it lol! But what can you do, if the people paying the bills do not want to listen...

------------------------------------
Dallas, Texas
Telecommunications Tech
CCVP, CCNA, Net+

CCNP in the works

 

[dearingkr]

I would remind them of why you were hired (doing things right).
Then ask if the electrician is aware of BICSI standards.
Do they have a RCDD on-staff?

Another thing to ask about is the warranty.
The cabling manufacturers offer 20-30 year warranties if it is installed to their specifications by certified installers.

MCSE CCNA CCDA

 

[resorttech12]

Good call on the warranty and RCDD, dearingkr!

Most brand new installs generally are warrantied through the company, given that you meet all of the requirements (using spec'd cable, jacks, panels, etc.).

Companies spend a LOT of money to get someone RCDD certified so that they follow those standards, and get the work from "smart" customers.

If you start out with a good install (cable support/try, and the all-important data rack area), it is supremely easy to follow. Then it would take actual thought about running it over tiles and lights willy-nilly like.

As far as the ATT thing, more than likely they are just going into a dmarc. If you have them do anymore, you will pay out the ***. Whether or not one of these is that dmarc, I don't know, but you should be able to use your copper between for that.

My 2 pennies on connectivity: I like Hubbell, but Panduit and Nordx are ok. I also prefer the empty panels that you put your jacks into. Easy to work with, and if you like to color code things like me, you can have diff colored jacks per system.

cheers. mk

 

[jpm121]

All, thanks very much for the information. I feel like I'm armed with some knowledge now so I can at least raise some points for discussion. We shall see....

 

[acableconnection]

Why not install a 24 strand mm. Same cost for labor to pull it in. pay to have 6 strands terminated and tested now, but you will be happy later to have extras there.