Ethics of Disabling 1

[djtt]

Here is an interesting question that I would really like to hear your opinion and soloutions.

Here goes. :

You have a client could be a new one or an old one. They are past due with their payments does not really matter how much or how long. But you have tired and tried to work with them and for one reason or another they just won't pay their bill. You have been providing services and have gone over board to help them and make sure they are happy. You have taken care of them and are there Johnny on the Spot every time, etc, etc..

At what point do you drop them as a customer and even further if the amount past due is large is disabling their system to force them to pay an option.

Are there any ethics or laws involved here?

I am looking forward to hearing your replies.

Thanks!

 

[notme11]

the law in AZ says that you have to give them notice in writting.I would sent the invoice registered mail to be able to prove that they received it. after that you can disconnnect your equipment form their suite or turn services off. once thats done you can demand to get certified funds only to turn them back on and anytime you go and do service calls for them request, payment upon completion. that has worked for me in the past.
sometimes depending on the customer after the payment has been received I give them a 30 day notice to get a new vendor. and drop them.

 

[skip555]

I would consult a lawyer before following advice I received online

a few dollars spent on legal advice could save you a lot later on

I will say it varies state to state and a lot depends on what you have in your sales contract

 

[DallasBPF]

I agree with Skip, get yourself a lawyer that has experience with these type of issues and see what they have to say and how they can assist you on this specific problem and any others you might come across in the future...

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Dallas, Texas
Telecommunications Tech
CCVP, CCNA, Net+

CCNP in the works

 

[paterson]

Yep, pretty easy to hide behind an anonymous Internet account and provide legal advice!

Sounds like you have done due diligence to this point with repeated attempts direct to the customer. The next step is getting legal authority to assist. Do not take things into your own hands and disable the system. What if there was some kind of emergency and the phones did not work? Not a position that I want my company to be in.

If you don't want to get legal advice, then as a minimum I would stop servicing the customer for anything. You can legally refuse service.

_______________________________________________________________

If you did not take enough time to get it right the first time...

What makes you think that you have time to fix it?

 

[macphoneguy]

I would have to agree I would definately get some legal advice if they are behind on their bills, or schedule a face to face meeting to discuss the matter, especially if they owe you "lots of money"

 

[djtt]

I have a client now who decided to let a "friend of the family" a youung Wiz Kid do their data and I installed the Nortel. Of course my work was neat as a pin as usual.

This "kid" and I do mean kid dragged cat 5 cables all over the place and they ended up with a "sanke pit" of wires. I am usre you have all seen this before.

Now they are having netwok and cable problems. I com into connect something and they are trying to blame their data network system failure on me.

 

[skip555]

so why would you disable anything ?

weren't you paid when you did the install ?

 

[djtt]

Still owes me a balance and is very slow to pay it.

 

[IPGuru]

my personal opinion is if the equipment/service is RENTED then disabling may be possible after due warning, it is the same as the line provider disconnection you for non payment.

If the equipment is OWNED by the customer & it is just an unpaid mantenance bill then disabling the equipment is probably not legal.

 

[donb01]

I've never done this with phone systems, but back in the cave man days when I was doing programming and modifications on accounting systems we used to have trouble with our customers being slow to pay their final bills.

Our solution was to deliver the system to the customer with our final invoice already entered into the accounts payable system, and we had code built into the software that looked at the status of the invoice to see if it was closed. If it was still open after the due date, for the first 30 days it would pop up a reminder on the screen once per day to remind them the invoice was past due, then for the next 15 it would warn them the software would revert to the "unregistered" mode, and if it still wasn't paid 45 days out it would place advertising on the bottom of every invoice they printed that said something along the lines of "This invoice was printed using an unregistered copy of Accounting Wizard by Company X. For more information on this software or to schedule a free demo please call our number".

Of course, one would assume we would have problems if we had a customer with a brain, so the code was set up to note the invoice date and number the first time the software was run by the customer. If they deleted the invoice it would immediately go into unregistered mode. If we had issues that were our own fault we could on in and edit the date as needed, and once the invoice was paid a flag was set to never check again so they could archive or delete the paid invoice at some point....

We felt these were legitimate measures we could take in this situation that would not damage the customer - just make them give us free advertising while we sought resolution of the problem in one way or another. Usually when the free advertising started coming out the check wasn't too far behind.

In the case of a PBX, unless leased or the initial purchase, this is a piece of hardware (not software) the customer buys, and it is their property. While software license rights typically state that you are not buying the software, but only licensing it, YOU are not the manufacturer and have no right to disable that software (in my humble, non-legal opinion). The hardware is owned by the customer, and anything you do to the hardware is akin to vandalism or hacking and you could probably get yourself in deep doo-doo (sort of like the System Administrator that gets fired and logs in with a back-door password and disables the ex-employer's systems). Now assuming this is the initial system purchase or a lease situation, then in that case I would assume (this is usually in your fine print on your purchase contract) that title does not transfer to the end user until the final payment has been made, or if they are in violation of the terms of their lease agreement I would assume that you could then remove the equipment that you own and are leasing to the customer. Again, I would assume these provisions are in the fine print of your lease agreement...

But then, you know what they say about assumption.... )

 

[telebub]

How often do they call you for service? The next time they call you, inform them of their past due amount and tell them to have a check written and ready for you when you arrive. Also, inform them that all future service calls will have to be paid before you leave the premises. We had a customer like that and that seemed to work.

War Eagle!
Lions Baseball '09!

 

[davea2]

Depends on your conditions of sale I suppose.
Ours state that until the good are paid for in full, they remain our property. If they are our property, we can do as we wish with them.
I have remotely disabled systems in the past, which has resulted in almost instant payment.
Surprisingly (!) an additional benefit was that the "issues" preventing paymeny also disappeared.
Even more interesting, is we have never lost a customer doing this - just make sure you have done everything you are obliged to under the contract.
Not sure of exact legel status of this, but never been pulled up on it, and as mentioned, never lost a customer because of it.
Its not immoral or anything, just business - have to be hard sometimes.

Of course the law may be different in the US....

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[jerryreeve]

One company I worked for sent me out on a job to a local college with the instructions "before you touch any part of the equipment pick up a check for $4500.00(the ammount due) and another check for the first two hours of labor, if you are there beyond two hours pick up another check for each hour you are there or stop work immediately and leave."

simple instructions and effective in getting paid, I continue to use the method with deadbeat customers.

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Hill?? What hill??
I didn't see any $%@#(*$ Hill!!
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JerryReeve
Communication Systems Int'l
com-sys.com