Do Converters Exist to Make Standard ATX PSU Work in Prop Systems

[lordfsa]

I was on the verge of buying a new PSU for my HP XW6000 Workstation when I read on several forums that they may not work as some manufacturers use motherboards designed to be compatible with proprietary PSUs only.

Is there a converter plug or something I can use to make them compatible? I dont want to have to fork out on another standard PSU when I could get a higher quality, less noisy, more efficient PSU.


Btw, I am considering changing my PSU as the computer emits an annoying high pitched whine. I have exhausted other reasons: not the monitor, cleaned the inside of dust and put the CPU on the floor away from speakers. The whine comes on when I boot and stays all the time...not intermittent.

I read it could be due to failing capacitors and a PSU change is called for...apparently those bundled in CPU packages tend to be less than top quality.

If I am barking up the wrong tree, then some advice would be appreciated!

 

[wahnula]

lordfsa,

First thing to would be to inspect your motherboard's main power input bundle connector to see if it's a standard 20 or 24-pin. That would answer that question. Here's a standard 20-pin, found via Google Image search:

http://www.sunbeamtech.com/PRODUCTS/images/psu_connector_kit_g_b.jpg

I have also read that the HP PSU connector is sometimes proprietary, here's a comparison shot, also found through Google Images:

http://www.nb.nu/power atx24.jpg

Next I would make sure the whine is coming from the PSU. You can momentarily jam the PSU fan with a toothpick or piece of cardboard with the system shut down, boot up, listen for the whine, then un-jam the fan and see if it returns.

Capacitors that are notorious for going bad are on the mainboard itself, not the PSU. I'm not saying it couldn't happen though...

Tony

"Buy what you like, or you'll be forced to like what you buy"...me

 

[edfair]

Time to visit the HP support site and see what the specs are for your system. I would suspect that if it is an ATX supply it will be noted.

The downside it that if it is an ATX supply it probably is built into a smaller cabinet and a standard ATX won't fit in.

Then you hit the next problem. To replace the case to handle a standard power supply the add on devices don't fit into the new case. Depending on how it is built, there is the possibility that there are no bezels on the floppy or CD. And then you find that the offboard connectors are not standard. So you end up doing a hatchet jov on your new case connectors to get it to work.

 

[lordfsa]

Thanks for being so quick!


wahnula:
I will redo the toothpick thing again as soon as I shut the monster down.

In the second image, the top is 20 pin and bottom 24 pin...arent they the two types of standard ATX? Which one is HP's proprietary?

Rats...if its a mobo capacitor, then i need a price quote from an engineer? Im not much of a solderer and wouldnt dare risk it...


As for finding out the specs, all HPs detailed spec sheet has is: 'Power Supply 460 watts, with Power Factor Correction'

However, I found some sellers selling refurb PSUs for the XW6000 and they quote:

Power Supply
24 Pin Power Connector
Model: WTX460-3505
HP\Compaq Part: 189643-001
Series: EWP115

Would that mean any 24 pin power connector would work, or there are different types of 24 pin power connectors?

The case is a WTX, apparently slightly bigger and backward compatible with ATX, but im not convinced as other images of WTXs ive seen are much bigger...HP specs says 'minitower form factor', the OEM PSU model no says WTX...

heres a photo of the inside of an xw6000, if it helps:

http://www.echeloncomputers.net/ebay/rickspics2007/DSC08790.JPG

 

[lordfsa]

sorry, latter half was in response to edfair.

in addition: the last thing i would want to do is refit everything in a new case...this case has brilliant airflow and temperatures dont go over 35 degrees even when ive run it overnight...okay, so im not overclocking, but its much cooler than my previous machines.

 

[wahnula]

In the second image, the top is 20 pin and bottom 24 pin...aren't they the two types of standard ATX? Which one is HP's proprietary?

Believe it or not, the 24-pin black connector is the HP proprietary. Note the square contact-less key five pins from the left bottom of the connector. That's a positive ID. It is smaller than the ATX 20-pin.

Those specs on the stock power supply sound excellent, 460 watts from a quality system vendor like HP will no doubt be in the 80%+ efficiency rating, and active PFC is a feature that is found in high-end PSU's. I think the standard would be fine, but if it's just the fan, that can be replaced separately at a greatly reduced cost over replacing the entire PSU. Sometimes a disassembly and good fan & grille cleaning (make sure you discharge the capacitors first) will solve the problem, but it could be a worn sleeve bearing on the existing fan.

Replacement with a like-size ball-bearing fan should solve the problem. Make sure the pinout (2 or 3 pins) is correct if you replace the fan. Post back with your inspection results.

Tony

"Buy what you like, or you'll be forced to like what you buy"...me

 

[lordfsa]

Following more inspection, here is what ive found:

1-The connector isnt black, but white like the top one...i havent taken it out yet, but when i do, ill match the order of the wires with standard ATXs to determine if HP did something.

2-I found that there is a mile high pitched electrical buzz when i plug the PSU into the mains with the system off...that cant be normal, can it? I probably cant hear it when i boot as the other noise is louder...

3-I used a toothpick in all the fans, booted, removed them one by one to see if any one of them was the source...but the high pitched noise was already there with the fans jammed off.

4-I then decided to systematically try all the drives...took all the 4-pin molexes out and put them in one by one....with just the DVD drive, theres a near silent running. With just the IDE hard drive theres a slight hum.....but with the SCSI, theres the high pitched annoyance thats been driving me crazy!

So i mustve misdiagnosed.......its the scsi main C drive, not the PSU.........although that slight electrical buzz when i plug the PSU into the mains is worrying....

I know SCSIs have a higher rpm so may make more noise...but surely something this loud is unnatural....ive mounted it using the four screws into the rail system, theres no room for vibration....

Time for a new hard drive?

 

[lordfsa]

*mild high....not mile high....my minds adrift...see, the noise is getting to me!

 

[edfair]

What you are probably hearing is the equivalent of transformer hum. Switchers work at high frequency. This is the same type noise you get with TVs from the flybacks.
I would suspect that you are young. I lost the ability to hear them whistling years ago.
The noisy SCSI is just that. Noisy. When you can't stand it any more, replace it. I have several that are good for building up testbeds but are nor usable in customer's machines.

 

[Sheps]

Hello,

I know this is quite an old thread but I thought I'd just add my $0.02...

I have an XW6000 that I bought with an eye to dropping it into a rack case and turning into a server on-the-cheap, however as with all of my not-too-carefully thought out ideas, it's never as simple as you imagine.

Firstly, PSU: Mine also gurgles to itself when the machine is powered down - a kind of quiet, mains-frequency hissy-hum, to use a technical term.

The PSU is indeed a custom fit and has some interesting features: Firstly, it's slightly taller than an ATX unit. Not really a problem, but you will have to make a mounting plate to fit it neatly into your xw6000's case.

Secondly, the actual output of the HP PSU doesn't even vaguely resemble that of an ATX PSU. For starters, it provides both +5v and +3.3v on standby, i.e. there are TWO power rails that stay active with the system "off" rather than ATX's +5vsb.

I made an adaptor for a Tyan Thunder K7 to use an ordinary ATX power supply - I believe it uses a "standard" known as EPS that is so common it is used on that board alone The ATX-to-EPS adaptor was quite easy to make as all of the pins required were present on a standard ATX PSU, just in either the wrong order or on the wrong connector (the "power good" line goes to the 8-pin CPU power connector, not to the 24-pin ATX-style connector).

When I work up the courage I may try making an ATX-to-xw6000 adaptor as I'd still like to squeeze this thing into a 19" rack case: it may be a case of wiring the +5vsb and +3.3vsb intputs to the regular switched +5v and +3.3v lines, then wire +5vsb to the "power on" line so that the PSU fires up the moment mains is applied. I think it'll either work fine or the magic smoke will escape - one of the two


Finally, the board I have has standard full-size ATX mount points, however the CPUs use those annoying heatsink mounts that screw straight through the board and onto a very substantial boss on the case chassis. I imagine that without the boss, the board would buckle and it would break quite comprehensively!

As an aside, my xw6000 stays whine-free during operation, so I would agree that there is a component somewhere that is on it's way out.

New HP-specific PSUs can be found on eBay cheaply enough - just search for xw6000.

Cheers,
--Harry

 

[G0AOZ]

Tony, just to let you know, about a year or so ago I had a whole bunch of PSUs with failing caps inside, usually the 10vw and 16vw electrolytics. The only PSU manufacturer I can recall was the UPGUARD, but there were several others.

On one emergency job I soldered in some replacements caps, but generally it's not worth the time with the ever dropping price of 'em these days...

ROGER - G0AOZ.

 

[wahnula]

So i must've misdiagnosed.......its the scsi main C drive, not the PSU

Congrats on finding the problem. Troubleshooting is mostly common sense, but many folks lack exactly that.

I would suspect that you are young. I lost the ability to hear them whistling years ago.

Glad to know I'm not alone...I realized my high-end hearing was gone when I could not hear my beeper (pre-cell phones) more than a few feet away. Now I've developed tinnitus so that high-pitched whine is ALWAYS there .

Also, I agree with Ed's assessment that the SCSI whine means the drive is failing but can still be functional for many years...I personally would keep critical data off the drive and plan to do a replacement & clone in the near future.

Roger, thanks for the info. I guess the "bad caps plague" would logically include the caps in PSUs too.

Good luck lordfsa and happy '08 to all.

Tony

"Buy what you like, or you'll be forced to like what you buy"...me

 

[lordfsa]

Many thanks to Ed, Harry, Roger and Tony for revisiting this thread, especially after so long; it would only be courteous of me to express gratitude and post an update.

I replaced the SCSI drive with a larger capacity IDE...i decided it would be wiser to go for a 250 GB IDE rather than a 40GB SCSI for the same price. Data access is tecnically a little slower because of the differences in rpm, but not great enough to cause a hinderence.

Havent got round to changing the PSU, but according to what Harry has to say, it seems it will be a fair undertaking with all the modifications. I know there are abundant xw6000 PSUs on ebay....i was just hoping to be able to get a silent antec or a hiper with a 12cm fan, to upgrade from standard HP PSUs. As an intermediate remmedy, I found putting a cut open cardboard box around the PSU corner dulls out the high pitched transformer hum...and since that was the most annoying aspect of the noise, ill just let it be for a while.

On another note, I managed to hunt down an identical 2.8 GHz Xeon processor with heat sink and VRM module for a bargain on ebay...so now i officially have a dual processor system Adobe photoshop CS2 is such a flash now!

Tony and Ed, its annoying to see SCSIs to have such a flaw...functional for a long time yet can get noisy relatively soon...looks like the higher rpm is a huge compromise.

Regardless, thank you all for your contributions!

 

[LawnBoy]

One bad apple does not spoil the whole bushel."
I've got SCSI drives that are absolutely quiet and have been running for 10 years or better. Any electronic component can (and will) fail. You got an inferior disk; it can happen to any manufacturer and it certainly doesn't mean that the SCSI standard has a "huge compromise".

It's like saying "My memory stick stopped working, therefore all memory sticks are crap". Just ain't true.


"We must fall back upon the old axiom that when all other contingencies fail, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." - Sherlock Holmes

 

[edfair]

The stuff I work with has to be 10 years old before I buy it. That is one of the limits imposed by servicing a 14 year old operating system.

Most of the systems I build up have 3 drives in them and my customers have to occasionly put up with some drive noise. When you buy everything on ebay you can get the specs but asking if the drive is silent is one step I would be hesitant to try. Most come out of the "too good to throw out bins" of the sellers.

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[acewarlock]

I have been buying on Ebay for about 10 Yrs and spent over $20,000 in that time and have never gotten a bad part.




This is a Signature and not part of the answer, it appears on every reply.

This is an Analogy so don't take it personally as some have.

Why change the engine if all you need is to change the spark plugs.

 

[edfair]

You've been lucky, ACE. I probably have about the average 2% bad, maybe even up to 4%, based on anything from ignorance to fraud. When I get things in that have a label stuck on that they are bad it is pretty obvious that it was intentional.

I've been in feedback flame wars so I prefer to ignore the issue rather than go through them again.

But then there are the real jewels that more than make up for the bad ones.