Dialing 1 for Long Distance

[phannah]

In what situations do you need to dial a 1 for long distance, and in which situations can you skip this part?

In my experience, mobile phones are indifferent to dialing a one, but POTS lines demand it. I've seen a mix on PBX's, but I'll assume it's added based on the numbering plan programmed on the switch.

My thought is that if the Long distance carrier is the same as the local carrier, it shouldn't matter? Is this a correct assumption, or does this go deeper than it looks?

I tried to find some information regarding it, but I couldn't find a source that got into the specifics.

 

[phones1]

to be honest it depends on the routing table programmed into each PBX, & the digits forwarded to the provider. most PBX's dont show the user the true number dialed eg: USER dials 2000 but the switch dials 02074962000 the user is unaware of this translation. with regards to long distance dialing some carriers use a different exchange to process long dis calls but you could program your switch to insert digits & taking away the dialing responsibility from the user.

 

[phannah]

In this case, what is being dialed, is exactly what is sent to the CO. I'm almost certain that since the LATA and IntraLATA carrier is the same in this case the one isn't required.

 

[ISDNman]

Even under the Bell System there was no consistancy on this issue.

Add to that the fact the many utilities commissions have forced their own views it varies all over the map.

If anyone has a copy of one of the old AT&T "Notes on the LD Network" documents there may be some recommendations and explanations form way back when.

On another topic, I have seen a positive trend that in most cases where 7 digit is allowed 10 digits is also acceptable. To my mind the sooner we get weaned off 7 digit dialing the easier life will be.

 

[jlshelton]

In some locations, the PUC required dialing a prefix of "1" to indicate a toll call, and calls without a 1 were to be included free in standard phone service. (But of course, there were flaws to even this approach.)

Worse, the US Country code is +1, so some confuse the country code with the access code. VoIP services ask you to dial country code + city code + number, which for US is 1 + AC + 7-digit.

I do not want to be "weaned" from 7-digit dialing. The end-result of such weaning is that all calls should be dialed as CountryCode + CityCode + Number + Extension. So, in my office, instead of dialing "47" for the kitchen, I should dial +44 9790 444889 47? Right. [green] Well, I'm not really in the UK.[/green]

I would prefer to dial fewer digits, and either have the phone system wait to see if I'm dialing more digits, or use an access code or terminator code.

 

[ISDNman]

j shelton

Surely you'll agree that an internal extension is different.

But since we have overlayed area codes in many parts of the USA there are MANY caases where 10 digits are needed to call acoss the street.

Having 10 digits for all calsl within the NANP makes a lot of sense.

So would uniformity of the 1 prefix. To my mind the approach you descibe (where the 1 menas "toll call" makes a heck of a lot of sense.

One source of real confusion is that many Internaitonal calls from the USA are part of the NANP so they don't need country codes. arghhh!

Having a PBX add digits makes the design of the PBX as well as programming it much more complicated.

You do raise an interesting question. Given that VoIP (and to some degree mobile phones) "decouples" the phone number from the location, what we really need is an uniform international numbeirng plan. But this would require dialing MORE digits routinely.

 

[jlshelton]

Actually, data science suggests that it's a bad idea to "encode" information into identification numbers. Naturally, people disagree, and most ID numbers encode some useful information. Room numbers often include a floor # in them. Serial numbers often include a date of mfr. SSNs include a geographic prefix. Phone numbers imply a location.

But we ask too much of our phone numbers. How can a phone number (or dialing instructions) encode location, price, nature of service (Adult-oriented, for example), and so much more? Price, for example, depends on the calling plan at the location of the caller. So should I dial "1" at my home, when I pay for the call, but not at my neighbor's home, where she has unlimited US calling?

The reason 10-digit dialing for local (US) calls was implemented was not because it was necessary in overlay areas, it was to give all parties equally DIFFICULT dialing. It was deemed unfair for someone with a new number to have to dial all 10 digits to reach older numbers with the original area code, when existing phones could just dial 7 digits. So all callers in that city are penalized, as are visitors who don't know that city's dialing instructions.

I would much prefer to dial a minimum number of digits:

[ul]
[li]011 + Country + city + number - for out-of-country calls[/li]
[li]Area Code + 7D number - for all US calls[/li]
[li]optionally 1 + AreaCode + 7D number[/li]
[li]optionally 011 + 1 + AreaCode + 7D number (just for consistency)[/li]
[li]7D number for calls within my area code[/li]
[/ul]

Inside a business PBX, I'm happy to dial "9" to get outside.

 

[phannah]

I've been doing 10 digit local dialing for years no, wired and wireless, so it comes natural. I feel it's the natural progression, however, as previously mentioned, the local calling area is subjective to the exchange your call originates from.

I did talk to my carrier today, and the same message was conveyed - dialing to some area codes will require the 1, but others don't. Documentation provided by NANPA was cited by the technician, but he could not specify what documentation exactly stated the requirement. It sounded to me like it had to do more with the rate center being called than the area code.

 

[SYQUEST]

The requirement of dialing formats comes from both the state PUC or equivalent jurisdiction and service provider land or wireless. NANPA only echoes the former in the information and planning letters on NPA relief.

But the "THE NOTES ON THE BOC INTRA-LATA NETWORKS" does provide all the variations in formats that are used, and why others are never assigned or used.

In most metro areas the '1' is NOT a toll indicator any longer because local rate areas may have different NPAs that make up the local calling areas. This is true especially in southern California.

Some of the info is still contained in the information pages of the ILECs' phone books, which pertains to land line service. Some states are more uniform than others in this regard.

So you might want to check with the service provider when in doubt.

Hope this helps!

....JIM....

 

[johnpoole]

here's the main difference from a pbx software point of view. depends on the routing table, if a pbx has a ld pri/t1, then that carrier knows that all calls to his route are ld, so i program that when the user dials 1 xxx i delete the 1 and send it ld. but dial just the xxx and i program assume that, that is a local call, send it to a local carrier. when i am in a central office, it works almost the same, from a pbx , ld pri, i see 213, send that to the west coast central, the west coast knows that the call is 213, because that is the only numbers they accept on that bandwidth, i don't send the 213, old LA switching see the next 3 digits 778, they know that call is in the 778 office and send just the last 4 digits, that bandwidth again only accepts 4 digits, all dest to the same office. same thing works in the other direction, you dial 1 803 xxx xxxx, from any exchange, all the digits get stripped until on my end i get 4 digits, and i send them to a ext.. because now 213 can be local or ld, more routing is required. but unlike ip, normal telco sends only the digits that you need to switch.. what an end user has to dial depends on who your sending digits to.

john poole
bellsouth business
columbia,sc

 

[ISDNman]

Jshelton writes:
<begin>
The reason 10-digit dialing for local (US) calls was implemented was not because it was necessary in overlay areas, it was to give all parties equally DIFFICULT dialing. It was deemed unfair for someone with a new number to have to dial all 10 digits to reach older numbers with the original area code, when existing phones could just dial 7 digits. So all callers in that city are penalized, as are visitors who don't know that city's dialing instructions.
<end>

Ah, but "equally difficult" can be useful.

(and to get to my original point, if we had universal 10 digit dialing it would be easier on visitors since they'd know how many digits, but just woul dneed to know if there was a 1 rerquired, hence reducing uncertaintly by 50%)

Did you know that there is one (and only one) solution to the male/female toilet seat debate? That is to close the seat *and* the lid after every use. Both sexes are then equally inconvenienced (personally I don't want my dogs drinking out of the toilet so I like this approach for that reason as well).

Back to telephony, we are pretty much in agreement. I don't have a big problem with *allowing* 7 digit dialing (and for DP users this is usefull). The problem is that very few people (outide of phone guys like here on this forum) know that 10 digit is permitted for non-toll-local intra-area-code calls. If more people knew about this then perhaps it would be more common and I do think this would reduce confusion.

Another area that more public knowlege would benefit the public is the use of the <#> as a send complete. This is can save subtantial time on international calls, and in many cases other calls as well. But very few people know this.

I agree about the down side of including information encoded in ID numbers and it does look like at some point or another that area code will lose value as an indicator of much of anything. Are there plans at this point to allow portability across area codes (I believe at one point there was some talk about this).

cheers

 

[fromill]

And then there is Centrex. To call a local Centrex number we only have to dial the last 5 digits but to call my home number I have to dial 9+7digits. To call long distance we dial 8+area code+7 digits (no 1 at all). And since we are using a pbx we dial a 9 before everything. We are just now having the discussion on 911 access. To dial 911 we must dial 9 9 911.

 

[johnpoole]

you can program a pbx to auto insert the centrex 9, at my site i add 911, and 9,911 to both route to 911. centrex(essex) is almost a pbx built in at the co level. i do the same dialing scheme, 9+xxx+xxxx for local, 4 digits to my cell or home, 9+1+xxx for ld, removing the 1 is possible on around 90 percent of ld calls, but because there are conflicts between some area codes and office codes, i force a 1, for all ld calls. i also reroute 1 + 803 to the local route, deleting the 1803. because of a hosp customer, i have to assume each possible dial pattern and try to route for it.

john poole
bellsouth business
columbia,sc

 

[phannah]

Does anyone have a copy of the previously mentioned documents "Notes on the LD Network" and "THE NOTES ON THE BOC INTRA-LATA NETWORKS"?

I'm quite interested in which area codes need +1 and why.

I suppose the ultimate solution to my problem is to have the customer equipment prefix the 1, to avoid problems with other area codes (my problem child was 970, I'm sure it varies by calling party location, but anyone run into this problem with that area code specifically?).

BTW, good analogy John Poole.

 

[SYQUEST]

Hi phannah,
I have several versions of "THE NOTES...", the original 1967 BSP, the 1986 Bellcore and the more recent 1997 Bellcore that has a CD included. The prior two versions are only on paper. Some day when I get a scanner I will put them to PDF.

What specific problems are you having with dialing plans in Colorado?

All the Planning Documents concerning the Area Code(NPA) changes that have taken place in Colorado can be downloaded from NANPA's website. These Planning Letters have a section in them with all the dialing plans applicable to pre and post splits or overlays for the NPAs concerned.

Hope this helps!

....JIM....

 

[phannah]

Jim - how many pages are the paper copies of the notes? If you're really interested in scanning these, I have access to a few copiers at work which have paper feeders and scan to PDF.

I checked the Planning Letter for the 303 split to 970, and while it did specify dialing plans, I believe these were for dialing from, and not into the effected area codes.

The problem I was having wasn't entirely Colorado (303 worked), but dialing from my switchin in South Florida, to 970, without a 1 would be rejected by the carrier. I found it odd that any other area codes I tried, without the 1 went through. My solution was to add a 1, simple enough, but still somewhat puzzling.

Thank you, and everyone else for your input!

 

[ISDNman]

This reminds me of a similar dilemma. I was looking at an ISDN log from a call from PRI from Time Warner and the caller ID (network provided) includes a 1. While many non-Telco people include a 1 on business cards, etc, I don't think it should be part of the caller ID.

I guess that is what you get when a *cable* company gets in the phone business!

 

[johnpoole]

the 970 is a problem because it is an area code and an exchange code.. there are others, and they will be more. in less conjested areas, (here) we can dial most 803 numbers with 7 digits. others requirs 1+803+7. matters not to a programer. i add options to my pbx, if you dial 1803 and didn't need to, i adjust the dial string, i you need 1803 and just dialed the, i adjust it.. more work, it would make more sense to force all calls to be 1+.. with all dial plans the same, what would i do for a job?

john poole
bellsouth business
columbia,sc

 

[SYQUEST]

Hi phannah,

In answer to your question about the size of the different versions of "THE NOTES...", the 1967 version is about 400 pages - two-sided and foldouts, the 1986 version is about 600? pages - two-sided and foldouts, and the 1997 version is probably 700+ pages two-sided with foldouts. The PDF on the CD is 13megs.

Back to the 970 problem, what type of outgoing trunks are your calls using? Are they dedicaded out WATS to a local switch or trunks to an IEC, like MCI, or ?
I had problems with an MCI trunk group back in the late 1980s to early 1990s. This was before interchangable NPA/NXXs. The MCI switch was an old Danray switch (Santa Ana), since the trunk group was direct the digit format was straight 10D. 7D would not work. About 1994 MCI rehomed the traffic and trunk groups to a new DMS250 @ the Dominguez Hills facility. They failed to tell me that it would require 1+10D. So consequently calls stopped going thru after cutover! I had to change translations in the OP61 to fix the problem.

So what carrier is providing service to your switch ?
Are you using multiple trunk groups to route calls to 970?
And what digit format do they require?

With the dedicaded groups other than local dialtone, like WATS or VNET, the outgoing formats MAY NOT match the standard or optional types. The reason for this is that they are OUTGOING ONLY and can be carrier specific and more times than not terminate on a PBX that probably is using least cost routing of some form. Sometimes you might be using account codes for instance or some other type of traffic that is unique to carrier/subscriber. So it makes more work for us.

This is one of the items I put on a check list when setting up service the first time or making changes to a new client.

....JIM....

 

[phannah]

Good point about the exchange John!

Jim - My setup is wonderfully simple. One outbound trunk group, one inbound trunk group, all over the same PRI's. We use a single provider (XO) for the circuit, local, and long distance service.

I think I finally understand that problem from everyone's input - sometimes you get it, other times you don't.