Desktop Power Up knocks out DSL Connection 2

[clambo]

Hi Folks,

Hope you can help I have a DSL with Pipex UK, I am running a wireless home network using an Etec DSL Modem/router connected to a Linksys 11mb Wireless router. Connecting to the network are between 2 to 3 laptops and 1 to 2 desktops all running Windows 2000 sp3 or sp4. I have recently moved into a new house and I had transfered my kit and the network intact. Only problem now is that when the desktop boots up it knocks/disconnects the DSL connection and I can't get the connection back up until the desktop has been powered down. I thought there was a problem with the ASUS WiFi@home wireless module but the DSL connection goes straight away during the powering up of the desktop and I have disabled the WiFi module too. I have tried moving the modem and router to a different phone socket and moved the desktop to a different electrical socket, but no luck. I am using microfilters on my phone sockets. I can't understan what the problem is as this set up worked perfectly in the old house.
I thought there might be some type of surge in the electricity circuitry of the house or feedback from the desktop but I don't know how to check it.

Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

Desktop: Windows 2000 sp3, P4 2.66 Ghz, Asus P4P800 motherboard, ATI Radeon 2400 AGP, Asus WiFi@home module

 

[Primis]

There's only one possibility I can come up with:

Power. Changing outlets may still only keep you on the same circuit. See if you can put something on a different circuit and if it helps. I have this problem currently at home and had to run an extension from the other side of the house so I won't kill things when I try to power up my PC and monitor. I pull off a different circuit that way. Inelegant solution but it works for now and I plan on moving soon anyways...

I can only assume when you say the DSL disconnects that it's a sign of the mdoem not getting enough power, so even if it appears to be on and normal, it's not fully functioning or something and loses the connection.

If it remians a problem and you can confirm it's an overloaded circuit, you could always put the modem on an APC backup UPS or something. Be forewarned though that it will be very hard on the UPS and you'll likely burn through batteries/UPS's rather quickly on it. I wouldn't recommend it for anything other than a very short-term solution. We have frequent brownouts here and I finally put my Speedstream modem and my wireless router both on a UPS because I got sick of it resetting, but it's a hard life for the UPS to fulfill that role...

 

[clambo]

Hi Primis,

Thanks for the advise. I took the modem and router upstairs to the master bedroom and gave it a go and still same problem. I believe the problem may be two fold, one with the power ciruits and the second with the ISP or line. Just this Sunday the DSL connection was gone for an hour and a half or so, and there wasn't any other appliance turned on. It took ages for the ISP to detect that our connection had dropped. On a previous call to the ISP their technical support guy thought that when the connection dropped, and the modem tried to reconnect the ISP's server wouldn't allow it, thinking that we were still logged in. My wife tells me that the connection had dropped a number of times during the day, last week, even when the desktop wasn't powered up.

Will contact the ISP technical support again to see if they can get BT to test the line. Something tells me that the line may be part of the problem, if not all.

I'll post back to let you all know how I get on.

Kind regards

 

[Primis]

clambo -

How's your DSL setup over there? I'm in North America and I know we tend to sometimes have a different DSL setup here than Europe and Asia.

Is it PPPoE? If so does the modem handle that, or the router, so tjhat it's "always on" for the PC's? Or do you have to manually login to the DSL on the machine itself? It's weird they'd be seeing a ghost still logged in after dropping, that would suggest a very abornmal termination of the connection they're not detecting.

I ask because if it's handled hardware-side and is dropping it's pretty much limited to between the modem and the ISP's end as possibilities.

If it's something to do with line interference within the home (power interfering with the line, etc) you may look into getting a NID splitter (I have one, great investment) on your line coming in. Then you can ditch the individual filters and just filter the whole line once as it comes in, and they usually improve your voice phone a bit over the small individual filters as well.

Hope this helps a bit for idea at least.

 

[clambo]

Hi Primis,

We use PPPoA in the UK, and I have it set up for always on the Etec modem also has an auto reconnect feature that is enabled. Yep, wife spoke to the ISP and they have it logged that our connection dropped 26 times last week and they believe there is too much interference for a 1mb connection. They would contact BT to check the lines but BT won't take the ISP's log and insist on testing the connections themselves. So we have to log in to a test server for 24hrs so BT can have a log of it's own to examine.

Typical, tug of war between Telco and ISPs, where the Telco would rather the broadband customer was with them rather than the ISP.

Not sure if we can get a NID splitter here, but will look into it. May check at work see if there are any someone is willing to sell on, hopefully there will be one especially since work is a major telecommunications supplier.

We use to have 1.5mb connection in Canada, it was brilliant except for the bloat-ware that Sympatico supplied using IE. I prefer not to use IE given the choice.

Will post back with the BT results.

Regards

 

[allteltec]

If you have a home run to your DSL modem you can use one regular DSL filter in the NIC if you can fit it in. Also eash filter has a 1/2 db lost added to the line so if your signal is weak and you are using a lot of filers it can help. I also see you have a modem/router + a Linsys router witch one is doing the PPPoe Username and Password login. I work for a ISP and help setup modem routers I find it is best to have the Linsys do the PPPoe login and have the modem set bridge mode. If both devices are working as routers it can be trouble unless you know what you are doing and have them setup right.

 

[bcastner]

Gack!

Never use a filter on the DSL line, whether from the wall jack to modem, or as member "alltec" suggested:

If you have a home run to your DSL modem you can use one regular DSL filter in the NIC if you can fit it in.

 

[clambo]

Hi Folks,

Sorry haven't checked with the ISP yet to see if the results concluded that there is too much noise on the line or not. Just finished moving in and DS2's birthday party has taken a lot up a lot of my time.

Can't use filter's on NIC's over here in the UK due to the different plug types in use on the phone lines. Curiously, the connection went out yesterday when my wife turned on the garage light (fluorescents lighting). It's strange as we have been turning the garage light on and off since we moved in and the connection never went before.

I have removed the ASUS Wi-Fi@Home module from the desktop and will turn it on sometime to see if it continues to knock off the connection.

Let you all know how I get on.

Cheers again.

 

[clambo]

Well, gave it a go with the desktop sans wi-fi module and yep the Dsl connection went again and came back when I turned the desktop off. Gave the garage lights a go as well and yep Dsl connection went as well.

Thinking I might try a surge protected power bar and see if that makes any difference. Can't see how both electrical circuits could be doing this. My wife and I both have been "hoovering" / vacuuming around the house and even right next to the modem and router, and the Dsl connection didn't drop. You would have thought the vacuuming would have dropped the connection for sure if it was circuit related.

Let you know if the surge protected power bar helps.

Cheers Again.

 

[allteltec]

Our nic here have a standard phone jacks in them so the sub can check for dial tone at the nic so he don't get billed for troubles in the house. We also for a no# of years have only been installing 2 and 4 line nic. The filters we use has a short phone line on the input and 2 phone jacks on the out, One marked phone witch is filtered and one marked DSL witch is not filtered. so it is easy to just plug the filter's phone line in to the nic jack on line 1 Then plug line 1 of the nic jack into the phone jack of the filter this filters ever thing on line 1, Then plug the phone jack from line 2 of the nic in to the dsl filter jack witch is the on filtered side of the filter then do a home run from nic line 2 to the dsl modem. We have big problems with troubles not all phone equipment filtered ie. alarm systems dialup modems fax's and Dish sat equipment. Also I have had filters installed backwards.

 

[misterdaya]

Ok...this sounds like an very interresting problem. I'm pretty shure that i can help, but I would need some more infos.first, did you check if you're modem's and your router's systeme or power light reacts or changes at the exact same time of your desktop powering up. If it doesn't you can give away the theory of surge...If it is the case...well you know where the problem is.Then, is the dsl or internet light on your modem or router goes of or starts flikering when pc booting up. If it is the case, you can be shure that the problem is located in the signal strengh gettin to your modem. This can be caused by line errors(old or damaged lines.).Ask to the tech support of your ISP your metter(if you're running at 1.5, it should be at least 1500 and more.1500 is allready causing problem). If it is a line problem is simply that the connection is to low and drops once the desktop is pluged in. This scenario is very unlikly, and rare. To verify it.You would need to test with an other pc.If it drops,well this scenario could be it. Then, if problem is in the network. Check your ip in your command prompt(ipconfig).You would need to check it on every pc in network. With a linksys router.It should range between 192.168.1.100 to 192.168.1.105 if 5 devices are included in network.It hapens that by some weird reason there is an ip conflict when one device takes an ip that belongs to an other device in network.If it is the case, i'll help you fix this.All the ips have to be different! I know this sounds stupid but make shure that this desktop has no phone cord pluged into it.This would suck up all your dsl signal. Finally unpluged every thing that uses phone lines in your home.I mean every thing..the only phone jack that should be in use would be the one used by the modem/router. I don't lose your connection.Call your ISP to explain them the situation, and tell them that you need to switch to a splitter installation. It should be free from any respectable internet provider. That's it for now.This reply is getting way to long(sorry for the spelling, I'm french).Let me know what hapens!

 

[clambo]

Merci Misterdaya,

I just picked up your comments and advise, I just recently dug out an older Celeron Desktop PC and swapped it for the P4 Desktop. When the Celeron started up, the DSL connection stayed up, no probs. So I swapped over back to the P4 and voila again the DSL connection was lost.

All the computers are set to receive ip addressing from the Linksys router automatically and I am only running a couple of laptops and 1 desktop at the moment, until this is sorted. I believe your theory regarding the power surge is the issue. Just need to find time to pick up one from the local Maplin's store and test the theory out. I read somewhere that some appliances will also generate frequency feedback interference down through home electricity lines, that could also cause the DSL connection to drop.

My wife has been in contact with ISP, but we haven't got back to them yet as my wife is due to give birth very soon.

Hopefully this will be solved this weekend, or it will have to wait till after the baby is born.

Many thanks for the advise.

Clambo

 

[clambo]

Hi All,

Just thought I would close this thread off. Got everything running smoothly now. Turns out that the card at my local exchange was rated as a 2mb traffic card. The BT engineer didn't need to come to my house, he called from the exchange to say that the reason for the dropped connections was that the card connected to my residence was 2mb enabled and that there was too much traffic on the line. Apparently, the ISP had been throttling the line with noise so that we would get the 1mb bandwidth, which combined with the distance from the exchange cause all the drops. Once the card was downgraded to a 1mb card, the line has barely dropped at all.

Thought I would share this, in case someone else has a similar problem with their connection.

Once again many thanks to all and their advise.

Cheers.

Clambo

 

[allywilson]

ISPs can't throw noise down the line - think the BT engineer was thumbing you off. They're only trained in the fundamentals of DSL, nothing else.

The best way to find out if you have a noisy line is simply to check your modem/routers stats. Look for the SNR (Signal to Noise Ratio) on its DSL status. If it's low (I'd say bout 7dB or below) on upstream/downstream then your line is on the verge. Also check the dB on the upstream and Downstream. Your upstream on an rADSL connection should never be higher than 30dB, downstream on a 1Mb connection should be sitting below 60dB (usually way below - but they've removed the restriction in the UK these days).

If you can't find what you're looking for on your modem, phone the ISP and find out if they have access to BTWholesale's Woosh (BTWholesale provide it free to ISPs - but ISPs tend to let their user accounts expire / get suspended and find it a pain to renew them). There's a specific tool in woosh called the "xDSL Status Check" this'll give you all the noise info you need, and a bit more, as long as you're in-sync with the local exchange.

If you get an unsure person on the phone they'll probably use "One Shot Check" - which is a pain in the arse and takes ages - plus it no longer displays the info you need. So tell the agent "Not that one!"

Anyway, hope this helps out future peeps!