Databases Programming Language advice.

[vtuda]

A long time ago I was working in FoxProLan. In that time it seems to me like databases programming languages were in constant improvement; so I was sure I could get all advantages and work was easier and easier for programmers. I felt I was in absolute control of language but today I feel is visceversa.. That is past time and four years ago I decided to learn Visual Basic. It was so different. It took me a lot to understand new concepts in visual programming. However, two years ago I started working in Access 2000. I've already sold some programs but I've noticed I spent a lot of time fighting with syntaxis, simple instructions, simple processing, etc... In fact I'm so dissapointed. I was trying to design a report on preprinted forms and I got lost. (I almost solved it by code but not at all).

I know I'm an oldfashioned programmer but I don't want to
waste a lot of time on limited programming languages that are not tested enough. So, I like to ask to databases experts: which one is the most complete database programming language?, Delphi?... I was reading about SQL but I'm confused: there are many kind of SQL!... I know SQL statements are present in a lot of programming languages but which one is the original SQL programming language?...

Thanks in advance and excuse me because my English.

VIANEY

 

[lespaul]

SQL is a generic term meaning "Structured Query Language". Databases can be accessed using SQL. Most programming languages allow you to access the database by programming a SQL statement and retrieving a recordset. You can then manipulate the recordset to display particular fields/records.

I have been learning Delphi over the past year and find that it is easy to program in and connect to a database.

As far as databases go, there is Oracle, SQL Server (MS), MS Access, Paradox, etc. I believe they can all be accessed using SQL statements.

Hope that helps some!

Leslie
landrews@metrocourt.state.nm.us

There are 10 types of people in the world -
those who understand binary
and
those who don't!

 

[zemp]

The problem with SQL is that there is a slightly different syntax for almost every database you will access. There is Oracle SQL for oracle, microsoft uses its own Transact SQL (T-SQL), etc.. The names may be off, someone correct me if they are, but you get the picture.

For example the SQL wildcard character in Access is '*'. In Ms SQL server the wildcard character is '%'. But to access data in a MS Access database from VB through ADO code the wildcard character is '%'.

Deaking with those differences can be frustrating.

Thanks and Good Luck!

zemp

 

[CajunCenturion]

To carry on with what has already been said. SQL is what is known as a DML - Data Manipulation Lanaguage, and in an of itself, is not a programming language, nor was it ever intended to be. It is a data manipulation language developed in conjunction with the Relational Data Model in order to provide programmers with a database independant method of database access, based on the relational algebra developed as part of the relational model.

Today, that paradigm still exists in that when you connect to a database, you are specifying a provider. One of the functions of the provider is to translate the standard SQL statements into the specifics necessary to operate at the physical level of the database.

Unfortunately, not all vendors have judiciously adherered to the ANSI stantard for SQL as in wildcard differences, and built-in function support that vary from provider to provider.

So to answer your question, there was no original SQL programming language. SQL is a Data Manipulation Language designed in such a way that with the right support mechanisms, can be used with any general purpose programming language.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[jrbarnett]

Hi,

A few points here:

There is an ANSI 'standard' SQL but to my knowledge, and I am willing to be corrected on this, the only database engine that uses it without modifications is Sybase SQL Anywhere. Even this, however, has extra functions on it over and above the ANSI definition.

Zemp is right in that virtually every database engine has differences in its SQL syntax, hence the popularity of products like Powerbuilder whose DataWindows take the difference out of SQL which means that pure application programmers don't have to get too involved in database SQL syntax.
By the way, the ANSI standard wildcard is % for multiple characters and _ for singles.

At a former employer we tried to convert an application hosted on Sybase ASA 6.0.3 to SQL Server 7 and it was a nightmare and gave up.
Our first attempt was to use a CASE tool to reverse engineer the Sybase schema and upload it to SQL Server, but it didn't put in referential integrity, primary and foreign keys but the tables were there. Some of the data types were set incorrectly as well. I think though that this was just the CASE tool was complete junk.

My colleague and I then thought "They both use Transact SQL" (remember that MS SQL Server is derived from an old version of Sybase), so tried to run a Sybase script we had to create the table structure against SQL Server, and it failed miserably.
This doesn't count translating anything like stored functions, procedures and triggers which are even worse than doing tables, views and referential integrity.

Hope that this gives you some idea of the difficulties involved in cross database software development.

John

 

[vtuda]

Thank you so much everybody!

You were so helpful to me. Now I can understand what does SQL mean. SQL concept is pretty clear now.

So what database programming language do you suggest or recommend me to work with?...

I know choosing an appropiate database programming language depends on operating system plataform and application but I just want to do easy programs. Nothing sofisticated. I was working on a inventory and invoicing project to distribute. I started it in Access 2000 but it turned unnecessary complicated.

Leslie mentioned Delphi. Actually a long time ago I've got some Pascal lessons but then it wasn't a full database oriented language. I was reading some information about it and I want to trust it and not to be dissapointed again.

I miss FoxPro era. But Visual Fox version was very frustrating to me: I was creating a database, getting familiar with forms, etc., and I didn't know what happened but everything was lost. I couldn't open database again.

Thanks again and regards.

VIANEY

 

[repete]

a big change from the 'old' foxpro (say fpw26) to the 'new' visual foxpro (now at version 8) was the change to object orientated programming, however your old way procedural way of programming in the old foxpro will still work fine in the new versions, whcih gives you the ability to move slowly towards the new available concepts.

don't give up on visual foxpro, there are fine forums here at tek-tips for foxpro, both the old and the new foxpros, to help you with problems and questions you may have

good luck



Pete Bloomfield
Down Under

 

[zemp]

If you decide to try VB (close to Access VBA) you will have to use some data access objects such as ADO to make your connections to the database. VB has some controls that make basic data access and manipulation simple. They also use ADO but do most of it for you. There are several free ADO tutorials if you would likt to have a look. I have posted some links in thread709-530615.

Thanks and Good Luck!

zemp

 

[vtuda]

Many thanks to you for your advice!

Your point of view about Fox and Visual Basic is very helpful to me. Now I think I'm going to make a good decision. I'm going to study both of them and I'll be patient this time.

And you are right!, this site is great about getting programming skills and aknowledge. Actually this site is a great programming tool.

Best regards.

VIANEY

 

[lespaul]

You should also look into Delphi, it is an object oriented RAD (Rapid Application Development). There is a Delphi forum here you should search for threads on the benefits of Delphi vs other programming languages.

Glad we were able to help!

Leslie

 

[vtuda]

Many thanks, Leslie. I'll take a look about learning Delphi too. By the way, before I started this thread I found an interesting Delphi tutorial for begginers like me in

http://delphi.about.com

by Zarco Gajic and I liked it very much.

Well, thanks again and of course all of your opinions were so helpful to me!.

VIANEY

 

[lespaul]

I started with several of his tutorials, they are awesome! Good luck

les

 

[vtuda]

Yes, I think Zarco Gajic is a wonderful teacher. I was close to congratulate him... (but I'm short about my English).

I simply couldn't stop to read his tutorial. So pretty clear.

Vianey

 

[svanels]

Delphi is not a database programming language (unlike SQL, etc.) but a generic programming language.
It has strong database support capabilities, that is you store the data in your favourite Database (access, paradox, sql-server, oracle, fox-pro etc.) and you design an application in Delphi, that access the data.
Your application will have the windows look and feel, you can display data in different ways, create reports, graphs etc..

You can embed some sql in delphi, but that is only necessary to obtain the data, and process it further in Delphi.

By the way, your foxpro knowledge is not wasted, you can still use it for designing your database and use delphi for the front-end application.

Your client only need the database and your delphi generated executable program, to be up and running.

Delphi is the evolution of Turbo Pascal, so you can program everything!! in it.

If you take the linux variant called kylix you can port your windows based applicatitions to linux

For more information go the Delphi Forum forum102, and also visit our FAQ area.

Regards


Steven van Els
SAvanEls@cq-link.sr

 

[vtuda]

Steven:

Many thanks for your Delphi advice. I'm taking a look about it, reading tutorials. All links all of you suggested to me are very interesting. I think I'm going to make a great decission between Delphi, Visual Fox, VB and Oracle. It's a hard decission but I just want to feel comfortable about programming.

Perhaps I'm wondering which one of all programming languages available today is the most popular in databases applications among programmers.

Best Regards.

VIANEY