Crime or Customer right? 2

[sleew]

Recently i posted a question in W2000S forum asking how i can install Compaq Windows on non-compaq machine.If i hack
CWindows did i done something wrong, even if i fully payed for that windows when i bought Compaq desktop?If that copy of Windows is my property i my install it where i want,right? Or not? Sleew
Compaq & Microsoft TS
sleew@infosky.net

 

[edfair]

You need to read the license agreement. It may very well state that you are licensed to use that copy of Windows only on the machine that it was supplied with.

The restrictive license agreements you are locked into by opening the package can limit your ability to do upgrades of software or hardware. Whether you are charged with a crime or not is up to the software police or Microsoft.

You didn't buy windows. You bought a license to use windows in the way Microsoft wants you to use windows. Read the license and get really mad. Join the rest of the IT community that has started to rebel against MS.
Ed Fair
efair@atlnet.com

Any advice I give is my best judgement based on my interpretation of the facts you supply.

Help increase my knowledge by providing some feedback, good or bad, on any advice I have given.

 

[sleew]

Yes i read the licence agreement lot's of time but question was of ethic nature.Who is realy wrong,MS or we?
You know in my country people are selling software on kilo,
infact i'm rare person that has licenced Windows(Companies have originals mostly).You pay $3(!!!) and gets 650mb of Software!I know it is wrong and work should be payed well but MS also goes wrong.They are trying to prepare people for future in wich people will spend all there money on software whatever they need, and they will control how,when and who.it is obiviously that
Orvel is turning around his grave, he was f...... right!
Like Mike Pathon says: it's a dady job and someone got to do it.oh man, who's our dady?!
one consideration more:
If MS could control piracy in my country they would not sell anything because it is expensive for individual.
in this way they sell more because people has opportunity
to have computer and software.And again they gain.How ever you turn thinks,whatever you say or do, MS is making money and that's it!

is this post offensive? Click here to arrest me....... Sleew
Compaq & Microsoft TS
sleew@infosky.net

 

[edfair]

I'm not the software police and I wouldn't turn you in if I were.
What needs to happen is manufacturers license it cheap, sell it installed, with instructions to destroy it when the system is scrapped. You could go through 10 or 15 generations of hardware for the purchase price.
Or do it like Apple. System burned on rom. Or used to be. And when the system crashes, you get a new M/B with new OS. Ed Fair
efair@atlnet.com

Any advice I give is my best judgement based on my interpretation of the facts you supply.

Help increase my knowledge by providing some feedback, good or bad, on any advice I have given.

 

[sleew]

Yes, system burned on rom(or in RAM!!)!That was something i was wondering, while i was working with Amiga 5,6 years ago,
why it does not exist.Then i read some Compaq white paper about it and went "mad", i was realy happy that IT is going in that way.Not because of low think, more because of performance and compatibility.
You are absolutly right about delaying usage of same licence endlessly,it is stupid to expect but MS and PC market are giving so fast tempo that you just can't use
same OS for more than 4-5 years.If you does use it so long you became incompatibile with everything by time.So when
times come for new PC your old windows will not be approriate anymore.


Sleew
Compaq & Microsoft TS
sleew@infosky.net

 

[Guest_imported]

I think it is a normal way that businesses always do. They want to sell their products as much as possible. If they build a thing that can be long lasting, how they can sell a new product or new version (sometimes only upgrade a little bit). We, as consumers, can only accepted the businesses rule if we do not have power in the market, right? Do you think what we can do to increase consumers power.

 

[edfair]

I for one keep running DOS, WIN31, and WIN95a. Have the others available if needed, but deny myself the bells and whistles that create the false need.
Think you will see the results some time this year when some hardware companies start having problems.
And you are aware of what happened with IBM and their attempt to force the market? Ed Fair
efair@atlnet.com

Any advice I give is my best judgement based on my interpretation of the facts you supply.

Help increase my knowledge by providing some feedback, good or bad, on any advice I have given.

 

[CitrixEngineer]

Microsoft have spent a fortune on researching, developing and marketing a series of products that meet the needs of a hungry computerised marketplace.

The fact that they fuel the need with enticing looking software, promises of fantastic features, bells and whistles, and catchy names is somewhat irrelevant, since we can all make our own minds up, can we not?

We pay the price they ask to use the software in the way they say we can. Why not? They developed it, after all. If we don't like it, we should choose something else.

Like...

It's Microsoft's anti-competitive practices that are the real problem here, not the software, or how we may or may not use it.

The DoJ say that they have broken the law in this respect, and M$ have the nerve to deny it, because they have the best lawyers in the world, and ex-presidents as golf partners.

The consumer has effectively handed all power over to Microsoft by its unwavering - in fact growing - brand loyalty.

Hopefully, the new activation system that is tied in with the XP range of products will make many think again - especially those who have got by as students on "backup copies" (you know who you are ;-)).

Maybe we'll see a real surge in the use of free software - or maybe, just maybe, one of these students will come up with a real alternative that is commercially viable.

I have become particularly fond of Linux in the last year or two - the latest distributions are easier to install, to my mind look much funkier than Windows, and offer more flexibility for home and business networks.

Now if someone could write some decent games or music software for it...


Back to the point, yes, it is a crime to hack Windows. It is not your property. I fully sympathise with your issue, though.


my $0.02

CE

 

[edfair]

CE and I have a difference of opinion here. I have no problem with your hacking windows to put it on another machine. The hacking is educational and you are licensed to use it.
I do however have a problem with , and consider it illegal, for your doing any more that installing it for the educational exercise. Use of it with any application on the second machine is in violation of the license agreement, even though you might remove it from the first. Ed Fair
efair@atlnet.com

Any advice I give is my best judgement based on my interpretation of the facts you supply.

Help increase my knowledge by providing some feedback, good or bad, on any advice I have given.

 

[pivan]

It is better ask for foregivness then seek permision. In not now, when?
If not here, where?
If not us, who?

Just do it!!

 

[sleew]

Well situation is not so simple,i would hack to install other application but i dont intend to use those apps or windows itself for developing some project that could bring me glory or money.I would use it to make two comp network at my house in sole purpose of learning.I'm working as Compaq and Microsoft Technical Support so those knowledge that i would achieve learning on hacked windows i will use to offer better support for Compaq and Microsoft products.
Of course that by developing my knowledge i will develope my salary but like i sad my salary is more than funny comparing with price of products i'm supporting or
fact that i am helping original Compaq & Microsoft support
by doing their job.Instead of calling Huston every day and bothering some phone-guy i will solve my problem alone,right?Thus increasing Cq&Ms TS productivity.
Every day there is at least one problem that i have legal right to "bother" Compaq for.I dont do it for two reasons:
1.I would wait more time than i have for solving problem
2.I want to develop my knowledge not to relay on phone or mail answers from someone i dont even know.

Yet,now uncle Bill has more use of me than i have from him, considernig how much i spent money on his products and how much recieved for my effort.Same with Compaq, same with my company.O.K. it is not legal to hack Windows,but again,
in my case is it ethical, or i should spent next 6 months
living like "last sh.." to buy W2K Server?; and then who knows
Windows 2003,2005,Bizgtalk Server,new tools, versions, licences,packs,trials,orders,money,money,..............................billion....................two billions.........
Sleew
Compaq & Microsoft TS
sleew@infosky.net

 

[MasterRacker]

Interesting how something that's illegal can still be somehow ethical..... Hmmm.....
Jeff

I haven't lost my mind - I know it's backed up on tape somewhere ....

 

[edfair]

You've finally clarified enough. Your plans are to install on a second machine as part of a network. Whether or not you install any applications, you violate your license agreement by doing that. Having it available on a network is use on a second machine. Hacking the install procedure for that purpose is unethical by any standards I've been associated with. Ed Fair
efair@atlnet.com

Any advice I give is my best judgement based on my interpretation of the facts you supply.

Help increase my knowledge by providing some feedback, good or bad, on any advice I have given.

 

[sleew]

OK Ed,i guess you are right....if i would be on a court
i would not start this tread,i would say yes it's wrong,
but what i clarified is that i will use it in strictly educational and non-comercial purposes and as i remember you was deffending that attitude. in England for example
you have lows that allows students and universities to
grabb CDs for their purposes,classrooms,labs,etc.My network would not serve any clients out of my room,would not produce
any commercial product.Any way i must say you are right,
i was just to angry when i realise that i need network at home 'cause of job, even if i dont want it i must have it.
MasterRacker,you bristled me with reply,no matter cause in my case your reply applies dont think like you wrote through your life.Of course that sometimes
illegal can be ethical,ethic is deeper than any juristic system man could made.if i would not be right than we would not need philosophy,literature nor anything similar, simply we would not ask ourselfs who we are and what we do, we would not reviewing ourselfs through whole life,what we did
god what we didnt, we would just look in some manual and find answer some lawyer wrote...
Thankfull for truth to everyone


Sleew
Compaq & Microsoft TS
sleew@infosky.net

 

[MasterRacker]

Laws are the fabric that holds a society together. Philosophy and ethics is what's supposed to guide legislators when they craft laws. Once the laws are in place we all, as responsible members of society are bound by them. If enough people together feel a law is unethical they get their legislators to change them. Individuals cannot simply ignore selected laws because they disagree with them. If everyone were to do that you have anarchy.

We all have to knuckle under at one time or another for the greater good of maintaing a peaceful society. Even Jesus told his followers they were still bound by earthly law.
Jeff

I haven't lost my mind - I know it's backed up on tape somewhere ....

 

[iza]

yeah but there are no such "earthly law", they vary from one country to another - and i feel american laws are money or lobby driven (and then you spend your time making trials to anyone for anything ...... ) ------
please review FAQ183-874 - this will help you to get the best out of tt
[ "you" is not someone in particular - don't take it too personnal ]

 

[pivan]

Jeff you are right in theory...and what you say was certainly in the minds of the Fathers of our Country when they drafted it in 1774-75.
However, we as people have slowly and over a period of time given up our rights to where your statements, while sacred and valid are no longer true.

A little anarchy might be good for a change...

Again...as I have said before a law is only a law if it can be enforced.
Sleew...
If you don't get caught...ya didn't break the law.

pivan In not now, when?
If not here, where?
If not us, who?

Just do it!!

 

[MasterRacker]

So if you bury a hatchet in someone's face, and never get caught, it must have been okay?

Pivan, it's an interesting view. I take it, that as a manager, you don't mind if everyone in your group ignores your instructions and policies. Sounds like fun.

Iza, you're right. Everything in America is money driven. Competition is the basis of the whole system. If someone can do it better or cheaper than you, fix it or get run over. You have to have competition to get improvement.

We're all ultimately responsible for our own actions. If you choose to act outside the fabric of society, fine. But remember you have no reason then to be upset if society turns around and squashes you for it's own good. Everyone has a choice about how they're going to act.
Jeff

I haven't lost my mind - I know it's backed up on tape somewhere ....

 

[sleew]

oh people, you think that American low is not so good?
in my country they change constitution like socks.
I think it is changed two or 3 times in last 10 years.
it is sick!You dont even know what to expect.i think that people who makes trials to anyone for anything is practicly
proove that you have a system;those people are idiots
but if they do that it means it works.Nor human jurisdiction
system is perfect so it is just deviation.if i would like to
sue someone for somenthing i would spend whole my life for
adjudge even if it is something stupid.Some people are divorceing for 20 years here.
Money driven?What do you think about politics drives you.
No money,they got it all.Imagine that everything you do,
even art someone they sre trying to politick?That is probably reason why whole population in my town listen techno and house music.Message is:it does'nt matter cause you cant
politise this.But they where even doing that in 1993/4.
In public Techno was reprasented as bad satanistic influence from
west Europe that tries to 'take' our brains aways.
i still remember how much i was laughing on that.
Like Jeff says, keep your mind on tape and everything is o.k.
you live in America and live those problems.OK maybe it is not so good system, but keep in mind that it is best(like
German juridical sys) that man made.It's like with basket-ball,Jordan can't fly around building but he is the best
even w/o it.
Sleew
Compaq & Microsoft TS
sleew@infosky.net

 

[Index]

MasterRacker makes some very good points. The law, because it is a cultural expression of ethical standards, supercedes any individual ethical standard.

To report the use of unlicensed software
Call 1-800-388-7478

"Technological progress is like an ax in the hands of a pathological criminal"
Albert Einstein​