KwicksPCServices
Vendor
Are there any experts out there who can provide information on the correct grounding and cable coupling proceedures of STP in a peer to peer network using Microsoft Networking protocals?
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Coupling STP cable
- Thread starter KwicksPCServices
- Start date
- Status
MWM
MIS
- Aug 9, 2001
- 200
...shielded twisted pair? STP is usually reserved for the highest (bleeding edge) speeds, e.g., CAT 7. These installations are for sites with extreme needs for reliablity and speed and where money is not a problem.
The peer-to-peer network you mentioned is at the opposite end of the network design spectrum--these are simple networks only. Peer-to-peer solutions do not support the more extreme and sophisticated software and hardware that demands CAT 7 performance. There is a mismatch here between peer-to-peer and STP cabling.
In short, however, the manufacturers of connection hardware, such as Panduit, offer guidelines on installation techniques for their jacks and patchbays. Again, such an installation requires grounding and bonding of a high calibre, beyond that usually seen in typical server rooms.
The peer-to-peer network you mentioned is at the opposite end of the network design spectrum--these are simple networks only. Peer-to-peer solutions do not support the more extreme and sophisticated software and hardware that demands CAT 7 performance. There is a mismatch here between peer-to-peer and STP cabling.
In short, however, the manufacturers of connection hardware, such as Panduit, offer guidelines on installation techniques for their jacks and patchbays. Again, such an installation requires grounding and bonding of a high calibre, beyond that usually seen in typical server rooms.
- Thread starter
- #3
KwicksPCServices
Vendor
Thanks for your input. You've been a great help. I would agree that STP in a P2P isn't the ideal cable to use but the customer insists his data corruption is being caused by a single 100' length of UTP (5 PC's are on this star topology) that he insisted on installing himself with in house labour rather than pay to have pro installers do the drops. "After all, how difficult can it be to weave some cable around a building" he asked us.
My theory is that this single 100' length of UTP (which they installed by wrapping it around a power conduit and ceiling fixtures) only needs to be installed correctly to solve the data corruption. Or at least that would be the starting point to a resolve.
However, there are plans to remove the P2P and configure a Win2K server down the road. We'll likely insist that we rewire at that time anyway.
My theory is that this single 100' length of UTP (which they installed by wrapping it around a power conduit and ceiling fixtures) only needs to be installed correctly to solve the data corruption. Or at least that would be the starting point to a resolve.
However, there are plans to remove the P2P and configure a Win2K server down the road. We'll likely insist that we rewire at that time anyway.
MWM
MIS
- Aug 9, 2001
- 200
...It may be time to be philosophical ...
I have not learned yet how to deal with clients who think they know more than a professional in the field. At least, though, they seem to be easier to spot from a distance.
The problem is that there is no way to win: they tell you how to do your job and then they are unhappy when you were not able to fix the problem. They will never say that their problem-solving was uninformed.
I have tried simply to be clear about being paid, because their solutions invariable take time that is wasted and they may be reluctant to pay for it because you obviously did not solve the problem.
The good news is that there is a way to cut their speculation short: throw down some expensive test equipment -- a Fluke, for example -- and let the machine give its expert opinion. In your case, it would tell you that the cable is fine. Is he going to argue with a six-thousand dollar piece of equipment? Nope.
It comes down to his estimation of your expertise, and so I let my tools do the talking. They have a hard time arguing with an smart inanimate object. And I bill them for the benefit of this exotic equipment. Then I feel better whether he believes me or not.
Yours,
Mike
I have not learned yet how to deal with clients who think they know more than a professional in the field. At least, though, they seem to be easier to spot from a distance.
The problem is that there is no way to win: they tell you how to do your job and then they are unhappy when you were not able to fix the problem. They will never say that their problem-solving was uninformed.
I have tried simply to be clear about being paid, because their solutions invariable take time that is wasted and they may be reluctant to pay for it because you obviously did not solve the problem.
The good news is that there is a way to cut their speculation short: throw down some expensive test equipment -- a Fluke, for example -- and let the machine give its expert opinion. In your case, it would tell you that the cable is fine. Is he going to argue with a six-thousand dollar piece of equipment? Nope.
It comes down to his estimation of your expertise, and so I let my tools do the talking. They have a hard time arguing with an smart inanimate object. And I bill them for the benefit of this exotic equipment. Then I feel better whether he believes me or not.
Yours,
Mike
- Thread starter
- #5
KwicksPCServices
Vendor
I could not agree with you more Mike. The cost of such tools however would exceed our budget. Perhaps if network configuration were our primary source of income then you can be sure that we would have the tools made available to us and that the fees we charge would reflect those costs.
Our line of business though covers such a wide base from residential home computer troubleshooting and repairs to commercial business applications, cabling and MS/Novell network installations.
When cabling C5 UTP I use a hand held tester that determines the location of a single wire break, the actual cable length, wiring configuration and continuity.
Everything else I leave up to experience and common sense in a lot of cases.
I know my customers well enough to play a little game of "I told you so" when situations such as this arise. They laugh and nod in agreement and I go about the business of correcting their mistakes and invoice accordingly. It boils down to save now pay later. The customer is always right so we step back and let them be as right as they like.
You're point is that customer's blame us for mistakes they make and that's a fair statement. Our way is to simply state on the billing that the client did this or that and that we do not and can not provide technical support and/or any form of warranty under such circumstances.
Only 1% of our clients ignore this written statement and such was the case in question.
Keith
Our line of business though covers such a wide base from residential home computer troubleshooting and repairs to commercial business applications, cabling and MS/Novell network installations.
When cabling C5 UTP I use a hand held tester that determines the location of a single wire break, the actual cable length, wiring configuration and continuity.
Everything else I leave up to experience and common sense in a lot of cases.
I know my customers well enough to play a little game of "I told you so" when situations such as this arise. They laugh and nod in agreement and I go about the business of correcting their mistakes and invoice accordingly. It boils down to save now pay later. The customer is always right so we step back and let them be as right as they like.
You're point is that customer's blame us for mistakes they make and that's a fair statement. Our way is to simply state on the billing that the client did this or that and that we do not and can not provide technical support and/or any form of warranty under such circumstances.
Only 1% of our clients ignore this written statement and such was the case in question.
Keith
I would suggest that you look at the cable FAQ I posted here in this forum. The link takes you to the creator of the CAT standard and he discusses shielded cable and how it's NOT recommended. The short version is that unless it's installed correctly, it will make a bad problem worse.
You need the the shielded cable, shielded connectors, shielded switchports or hub ports, proper grounding and so on. Add to the fact that shielded cable could SHORTEN the range of the cable run ( CAT5 expects to emit some of the EMI as loss, not kept in the cable by the shielding) and it gets very ugly.
I had a very raucous debate with the engineers at Siemens about this after they spec'ed shielded TWP for an install and then could not justify why. The end result was having several of us on a extended conference call to Germany with their cabling experts after they had read the above mentioned doc. The stake through the heart is that the EU had tested standard CAT5 Lucent cable and panels to speeds excess of 600 Mhz and it passed all tests. Somewhere I have a copy of that information also.
The bottom line is that CAT5 cable properly installed will suffice for many years. If nothing else CAT5E. But shielded TWP is just asking for troubles and if it were me, and I had a customer that INSISTED to use it, I would pass on the project. It's just not worth the hassle and bad PR that would come of it.
MikeS
Find me at
"Diplomacy; the art of saying 'nice doggie' till you can find a rock" Wynn Catlin
You need the the shielded cable, shielded connectors, shielded switchports or hub ports, proper grounding and so on. Add to the fact that shielded cable could SHORTEN the range of the cable run ( CAT5 expects to emit some of the EMI as loss, not kept in the cable by the shielding) and it gets very ugly.
I had a very raucous debate with the engineers at Siemens about this after they spec'ed shielded TWP for an install and then could not justify why. The end result was having several of us on a extended conference call to Germany with their cabling experts after they had read the above mentioned doc. The stake through the heart is that the EU had tested standard CAT5 Lucent cable and panels to speeds excess of 600 Mhz and it passed all tests. Somewhere I have a copy of that information also.
The bottom line is that CAT5 cable properly installed will suffice for many years. If nothing else CAT5E. But shielded TWP is just asking for troubles and if it were me, and I had a customer that INSISTED to use it, I would pass on the project. It's just not worth the hassle and bad PR that would come of it.
MikeS
Find me at
"Diplomacy; the art of saying 'nice doggie' till you can find a rock" Wynn Catlin
The simple solution is to test your 100' hypothesis. Make a 100' patch cord and bypass the section you feel is substandard. Then test, ProvaGEN ( is a nice FREE TCP packet generator that can "load" the network for you.
I agree with the above statements:
Test equipment is essential.
STP is a waste of money and time.
Some customers are a PITA and best left behind.
Best'O'Luck
I agree with the above statements:
Test equipment is essential.
STP is a waste of money and time.
Some customers are a PITA and best left behind.
Best'O'Luck
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