Could the PSU be causing lockups or slowdowns?

[wahnula]

Hello all,

I have a user on my 10-PC office network that has been complaining about his recently-built (July this year) PC. I finally had some time to sit at it for a while and experienced the same problems. It's a simple and clean business PC, Sempron 1.8, Biostar NF-CK804 mainboard, Win2KSP4 w/ all updates, 1GHz DDR RAM, onboard GFX, 71 out of 80GB HDD is free, it is a client of my SBS2003SP1 network so most of its users' data lives on the server.

I was checking through the BIOS after a lockup and saw the CPU temp was OK @ 24 degrees, but all the voltages were a tad low. The 12-volt was 11.97, 5-volt was 4.89, 3.3 volt was 3.17, and the CPU core was 1.4. Are these readings low enough to be responsible for the problems? I'm not sure exactly which PSU it got but surely the wattage demand from this system is quite low.

The machine has tested clean and clear of viruses and spyware(we have a SonicWALL gateway A/V plus A/V on all PCs), squeaky-clean EventLog, and we have used Firefox as our default browser since it came out (reducing my anti-spyware administration to ZERO). Thanks for your opinions.



Tony

"Buy what you like, or you'll be forced to like what you buy"...me

 

[wolluf]

Lockups or slowdowns. Can you say exactly what is happening with machine. Is it actually locking up (so you need to hard shutdown)? Or is it just slowness - and in what circumstances?
Has it been like this since deployed - or did it just start or has it gradually got worse? I doubt very much the PSU is the problem - but without more info its hard to say. Also idea of what's running on it - especially security software. Might be worth running chkdsk just to see if any filestore corruptions.

 

[wahnula]

wolluf

Thanks for the reply. Running Norton 2002 A/V only. I have not personally experienced the lockups but when I went to install and deploy Adaware and Spybot it took much longer than it is supposed to...got a "Not Responding" in Task Manager and forced a reboot both times but no lockups under my watch.

When queried, the user said that everything was frozen, no CTRL+ALT+DEL, hard reset. All he runs is Office 2003 and ACDSee, web surfing but all work related, believe it or not.

The wireless gets dropped also on occasion, D-Link 520 but there's a WAP within 15 feet, I set him up for offline files and the synchronization icon sometimes synchs, then claims it is not connected to the network when it obviously is.

Really minimum install, very clean, complaints from the start but I always attributed it to PEBCAK. We did have an issue with Outlook 2003 going down but I uninstalled the Office 2003 version and reinstalled the version that came with SBS2003, loaded Office SP2. That particular problem has gone away.

Funny that ALL other PCs work flawlessly, maybe corruption as you mentioned, even though it's a new disk running Diskeeper with Smart Scheduling. Will run chdsk as an added measure. Last gasp is to buy & load XP. Thanks again for the feedback.

Tony

"Buy what you like, or you'll be forced to like what you buy"...me

 

[wolluf]

If its a hardware problem than XP would almost certainly behave similarly. Real repeating lockups are nearly always bad hardware or bad drivers on 2k and XP (and it sounds unlikely to be bad drivers - though again, worth checking you have all the latest if you haven't already). If complaints from start were real, I'd definitely suspect a hardware issue - but finding it would be the old process of elimination (and it doesn't sound like its 'very' bad hardware, as machine did actually install and runs - at least to a degree. Usually bad hardware shows up as errors during the install process on 2k. Was it an install, rather than an image? Would it be worth flattening machine and doing another 2k clean install - at least you could see how it behaved during the install process, and it might cure the problem (though I'd not put money on it!)

 

[wahnula]

wolluf

It was a clean install from scratch to a new drive, mainboard, CPU & RAM...I am 99% sure. There was nothing remarkable during & after the build, although when I do this stuff at home it's always with a Cat 5 connection, not a wireless like in the office, an old trailer with no attic for wiring. That's why I think XP might do better, as its wireless support is native and I wouldn't need to run the D-Link utility.

I measured 23' from the WAP to the PC. His signal level was rather low at 56% so I moved the WAP and got it up to 88%. In my mind, it's either the PSU or the wireless utility at fault. All the slowdowns occurred during data transfer across the network, when checking for updates, so it's still a suspect. Let's see what happens with the improved signal. Thanks for your suggestions.

Tony

"Buy what you like, or you'll be forced to like what you buy"...me

 

[jurgen36]

Try to uninstall Nortons using their uninstall utility. You might find that the system will work normally afterwards.
Had similar problems in more then 400 machines. Uninstalling fixed them up. Now use AVG free. Also better protection. You have to download and use their utility otherwise Nortons remains in the registry and has to be deleted with the reg editor. This can take many hours of work.
Regards

Jurgen

 

[wahnula]

Try to uninstall Nortons using their uninstall utility. You might find that the system will work normally afterwards.

Thanks for the suggestion jurgen36 I am aware that many people have had trouble with Norton products, myself included with their Server2003 A/V. Caused the only BSOD the server ever had, after researching the error I found "Symantec is aware of this issue and developing a workaround". Feh, out it went and I went with CA ETrust A/V and no more problems.

However, I have been using Norton 2001 and 2002 (A/V only, no SystemWorks or Internet Security) on so many PCs I can't count without issue, including the other nine Win2K clients on my network. I believe Norton's real problems started in the last few years. Still it is an easy fix and if the improved wireless doesn't work I'll give it a shot. My personal PCs run AVG Free.

Tony

"Buy what you like, or you'll be forced to like what you buy"...me

 

[JackCole]

Hey Tony,

As to the power supply issue, it's perfectly normal to find the values put out by your PSU are not quite as advertised. In fact the ATX 2.01 specification allows for a 5% variance in the +3.3v and +5v rails, and up to a 10% variance in the +12v rail. In this case your +3.3v rail is only pushing out 3.17v, but it can (not should, but can) go as low as 3.135v without causing 'significant' problems (aka failure to boot). As far as I know most of the 1.8 GHz AMD Semprons in the 3000 series have a Vcore of 1.4v (I seem to sell more Intels, so not sure) so you shouldn’t be having any problems there.

You mentioned that all network problems only seems to occur when actually transferring data across the network, and you’ve had intermittent lock ups during regular tasks. Sounds like RAM could also be a possible cause of your problems. Did you try running Memtest86+ or a Windows memory diagnostic?

 

[wahnula]

Hello JackCole,

Thanks for the info on the power specs, it was very useful to me...but I seem to have found the culprit as I was adding another PC to the network in the general vicinity of the problem PC. I was working on it during lunchtime, and every time someone would use the microwave (it resides in the 90 degree angle of the right triangle created by the WAP, microwave & PC) the wireless signal would drop out. This new PC was a WinXP machine and informed me with a little balloon that the "wireless connection was disconnected". Upon checking the Eventlog it was disconnected for only a few seconds, consistent with radio interference.

For both PCs to have the same random problem is too much of a coincidence...I researched when I was working on the Win2K PC and it was also at lunchtime. We have about (30) workers that come in the office and microwave their lunches, in addition to the office staff.

Either I need to get the second WAP past the microwave or replace the microwave. I've heard of this problem in the past but never experienced it personally...since it's an El Cheapo microwave the leakage does not surprise me a bit.

Anyway the increased signal and an additional 512MB of RAM has ended the user's complaints, and I will ask him to check the kitchen next time he has a problem.

Tony

"Buy what you like, or you'll be forced to like what you buy"...me

 

[JackCole]

It's always the little things. And they say we don't work for our money.

 

[wahnula]

It's always the little things. And they say we don't work for our money

In my case I don't...it's truly a labor of love. We have a small, family-owned business and I am the main revenue producer, so that's even more of a reason to keep things running smooth. Building PCs and administrating (administering???) the company network is my hobby, I get to build maybe 3 rigs a year (plus friends' PCs) and did the server upgrade (NT 4.0 to SBS2003) on my own single-handedly (with lots of Tek-Tips helpers).

People were advising me to buy a prebuilt Dell or the like and I was wisely warned "if you build it, they will come...to your door when things don't work) but could not resist the opportunity to build and deploy my first server.

So...I do the network thing part-time and after-hours but have the advantage of knowing EXACTLY how my server & network works. I still have outside help (from an MCSE at $125/hr) for major problems but otherwise try to not let the IT part of me interfere with the revenue producing!!!

Take care and haver a great 2008!!!

Tony

"Buy what you like, or you'll be forced to like what you buy"...me

 

[wahnula]

UPDATE: The problem child has been disciplined. After eliminating the PSU (it was junk anyway, replaced w/ FSP despite the knowledge gained here) the problems continued. The microwave/wireless link interference was eliminated as a culprit because it locked up when the user was alone in the office.

I remembered an earlier reading that most of the problems with Windows were usually driver issues. I also remembered that when I did the build I did not exercise due diligence and bought a mainboard without integrated video, my usual approach to office machines. So, I grabbed an old 3DFX Voodoo PCI video card and slapped it in, using a driver from Windows Update.

Since the mainboard had an unused PCI-E x16 slot, I decided to try a new video card, a GeForce 7200GS for about $30USD, rather than hunt-and-peck for a better driver. That was the key, and the PC has been stable and lockup-free for about three weeks now. I will NEVER use old hardware again!

Tony

Users helping Users...

 

[LawnBoy]

Now that you mention it, I remember those Voodoo3 cards being famous for randomly locking up. Inadequate heatsink from 3DFX, as I recall.


"We must fall back upon the old axiom that when all other contingencies fail, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." - Sherlock Holmes