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Copyrighting code 4

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mavalon

mavalon

Programmer
Apr 18, 2003
125
US
The scenario:

I had an idea for a business. Someone else liked my idea and we decided to become partners. We each have 300 shares (i.e., we both contributed $300 to open a bank account for our company).

The business revolves around a web application. I spent nine months of full-time work developing the application. It is now complete. But my partner and I had irreconcilable differences and we decided to dissolve the company. I put in over 1500 hours to develop the application and because we never launched, I never earned a dime. Now that we have dissolved the company, I would hate for him to take my application to start a new business, thus capitalizing off of my slave-labor.

Am I able to copyright my codes? If so, how can I accomplish this?
 
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Hi mate,

As you were both in business together and that application was built in business time, then both of you own it. So this means that for you to copyright the code, your ex-partner would also be able to use it legally as he would own the copyright as well.

Hope this helps

Wullie


The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The leader adjusts the sails. - John Maxwell
 
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Yes, very helpful. Thanks.

But, what if there was no signed agreement between us that I would develop this software for the company?

Your feedback is much appreciated!
 
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Hi mate,

Then how are you going to prove ownership if this guy tries to use it? That was your worst mistake, always get a contract drawn up and signed. Basically, right now it would be your word against his.

Hope this helps

Wullie


The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The leader adjusts the sails. - John Maxwell
 
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IF you have all the code then post it to yourself (but dont open it). This will give you a date on the envelope which will prove when it was created. Then if you see the application around then you open the letter in front of a lawyer (i think). Not sure but that might show that the code is yours and when you had it.
 
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dyarwood,

If you do that, it should never be opened unless in front of a judge.

Using that method would do nothing in this case though. This code was created for a business that both of these people worked for, so the code belongs to both of them, no matter what copyright steps are taken.

Hope this helps

Wullie


The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The leader adjusts the sails. - John Maxwell
 
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Wullie

I see your point. As an aside question could an individual do this to copywrite code?
 
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Hi mate,

It can be used to provide a basic method of copyright protection, but the problem with this is that there is also a chance that a judge will throw your claims out of court.

Afterall, what would be to stop you taking the code from my site and then running through this method of sending the mail and then claiming it was yours? (Except that I have proof I created it [noevil])

The best method for this is to take screenshots on your computer with you working on the code, then put all the code on a floppy and send it to yourself. Most important part here is it must be sent registered post so that it requires a signature, this leaves a paper trail to prove that letter was sent on that date. Also, be sure to package it properly, it would be a little bit embarassing to get to court only to find that the floppy is damaged.

Hope this helps

Wullie


The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The leader adjusts the sails. - John Maxwell
 
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Cheers Wullie. Was more out of curiosity than anything. If I ever do create something worthy of copywrite I will do it properly (highly unlikely). Thank you for you answer. Very helpful. Have a shiny thing.
 
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Ah, silly people! What you do is this:

Step 1) Mail yourself an unsealed envelope. Do it now!
Step 2) Store the envelope for a rainy day.
Step 3) On said say, take the design of any product newer than the official date stamp on the used envelope.
Step 4) Put your copy of the design into said envelope. Seal with water.
Step 5) Take your forgery to a solicitor, and sue the rightful ownsers!

If by some chance your case actually gets chucked out, sue anyone who suggested owning the oldest hard copy (as stipulated by law) was actually ussable evidence for the losses their negligent advice has caused you.

More seriously, I do not suggest you attempt lying in court - ever :)

Moral of the story is to take your work to a reputable intelectual property solicitor and have them date stamp it, or better still - find a dodgy lawyer and repeat the above! :D

It's the only way that offers any decent protection. Cost is about £60/$100 I think. Ripoff when you consider that it's just a friggin 3 seconds of their time and that it only replaces your word with their word.

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I'm willing to trade custom scripts for... [see profile]
 
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stormbind,

Mailing yourself an empty envelope is pointless, most mail services would write a note on it that the package was found open and to contact them about any possible loss of content.

Hope this helps

Wullie


The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The leader adjusts the sails. - John Maxwell
 
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No they don't you tuck it in and include a sheet of cardboard. You aren't half stubborn :)

This 1994 copy of Windows XP Professional proves my point :p

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I'm willing to trade custom scripts for... [see profile]
 
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I honestly cannot believe you have never recieved a package that wasn't properly sealed!?!

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I'm willing to trade custom scripts for... [see profile]
 
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Visit The United States Copyright Office You can call them at (202) 707-5959 and they will direct you . Having an actual copyright may help deter your ex-partner (or anyone else he teams up with) from trying to take what you've created .

It's not clear what your partner was doing while you worked away for 1500 hours but I can't imagine you would lose in court if you authored the appliication. Sounds like his half of the partnership duties would have kicked-in after you developed the project. You two never arrived at that point.

Good Luck and don't delay
 
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stormbind

It isn't that I have never received a package that wasn't sealed properly, it's the fact that if you put a letter in the UK for registered delviery (which this would have to be to even have a chance in court) then if it is not sealed properly, they normally will not accept it.

As registered delivery includes insurance of the item, they are not likely to let you send an unsealed item. [wink]

zavsays,

It won't matter what part the other person had in the business, it all boils down to the fact that these two people were in business together. This program was created under business time, so belongs to the company. The company has now split but that program is still an asset of the company, so belongs to all owners involved.

Hope this helps

Wullie


The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The leader adjusts the sails. - John Maxwell
 
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2 points:

1. "If I ever do create something worthy of copywrite I will do it properly"

Key point made here. Do not waste your time with HTML, there's nothing special you can create with just HTML that hasn't already been done before. Do it with something you really need to protect.

And take Wullie's advice on how to do it properly.

2. Copyright is not international! Many countries have international agreements concerning copyrighting. And many do not. So while someone in the US may have a relatively easy time bringing charges against someone else in the US...try doing the same against someone else in Burma or Yemen and see how difficult the process gets.

Moral: If it's worth anything don't put it on the net. If it is web realted and you really need to protect it then learn how to do it properly!


<!--#sig value=''É'' url='' -->
 
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My understanding is that, in the absence of written contract terms, the courts would impose what they deem to be reasonable terms. You could argue that, having worked unpaid for nine months, you have the right to retain the copyright on this code in lieu of the payment the ex-company owes you for your time. It's an argument that might stand up if you can demonstrate that your partner contributed nothing to the development (if he was passing on knowledge about the target business area rather than coding, that's still a contribution).

That's one line of argument that occurs to me, no doubt there are others that a smart lawyer could think up. HOWEVER, it seems to me extremely likely that a court would decide that the safest course would be to divide the company assets equally between you - essentially leaving you in the same situation you're in now. You've already spent a lot of time on this. Do you want to spend even more time, and a LOT more money thrashing it through the courts? The only winners would be the lawyers.

Chalk it up to experience and move on. You have a product to sell, but it's version 1. It'll have bugs in it that you haven't found yet. It'll need features that you haven't thought of. As writer of the code, you're better placed than your partner to fix those bugs and add those features. Concentrate on winning in the marketplace instead of the courts.

-- Chris Hunt
 
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You all made some valid points. Thanks you all for sharing your thoughts on this matter. At this point I am thinking more clearly and am considering this unfortunate turn of events as an important lesson (albeit learned the hard way). You can be sure I won't be so stupid and careless next time.

Thanks again,

Mike
 
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