CompTime - Feedback Please

[theripper]

Greetings all ~

I'm in bind here at work w/Comp Time. We do not have an official policy, and I think the lack of 'this' policy is being used unfairly. More specifically, towards our technical staff.

Currently, tech staff are salary. Typical work week is 45 to 55 hours. Standard. Any Comp Time requests have been for anything after the 55 hours per week.

Our only reference to Comp Time states, " . . . any request for Comp Time must be made within 3 weeks, and must be approved by the CEO, who has sole discretion as to what is approved and was is rejected."

I'm the Manager of our IT Dept. I'm trying to figure out a way to make upper management realize there needs to be a clear description that states something like:
8 Hours of OT = 4 hours Comp Time, or
8 Hours of OT = 2 hours Comp Time
. . . basically anything that shows work above and beyond the call of duty will be acknowledged. As you know, most network upgrades, server enhancements, reconfigs, etc... take place after hours or on weekends. Yet, it seems like currently, every request (which isn't too often) is rejected. Well, it's hard to tell someone with 43 hours of OT, "Susan . . . your Comp Time request was rejected! No particular reason. Just rejected. Sorry."

This has become very frustrating, and has weakened any rapport that was created between tech staff and upper management.

I would like to know how your company deals with Comp Time w/staff? Is there a difference between departments, or is there a policy that applies to all staff? Is it clear? All Feedback would be greatly appreciated towards this issue.

Thank you much.

 

[Kjonnnn]

Does company have an HR person?

You can find out from them if there are any federal worksplace laws that might help you.

 

[Gatorajc]

Sorry to hear about your situation. Our company (mid-size) policy is that it is up to mgr discretion which works out great for my group and I our mgr is one of the best but others here it is not so good. Depending on where you live a law may or may not help. In Florida(USA) right to work state which means whatever the employer wants AJ
I would lose my head if it wasn't attached.

 

[KenCunningham]

I sympathise with your situation. Our last Director of IT had an antipathy towards allowing time off (even though it is the organisation's official policy to allow 'flexitime'), and that led to much bad feeling amongst staff who, very often, didn't have any option but to put in the hours for the very reasons you identified.

Since the person 'moved on', the new regime allows flexitime to be built up and taken within reason, the result being a happy and more productive workforce more willing to go that extra mile to achieve their objective. Is it worth pointing out the demoralising effect that constant knock-backs have on morale? Though by the sound of it your CEO seems to be rather inflexible if he/she hasn't considered the effect of this intransigence. What's your staff turnover like? Perhaps if it' high the lack of comp time could be pointed to as a contributary factor. Anyways, hope it works out, best wishes and good luck.

 

[chiph]

Theripper -

Tell the CEO that it costs a minimum of $5000 to replace an employee (much more if you use a recruiter), and that when the economy picks back up, he'll have a lot of positions that will need to be filled as disgruntled people leave for better work environments.

Of course, he sounds pretty short-sighted already, so this argument may not have much of an effect.

Chip H.

 

[johnny99]

If you want good people working for you and doing a good job be fair to them.

I don't know any tech people that would like to upgrade their network in normal hours, so basicly if the company want it done outside normal hours they have to pay one way or the other. If you do it using overtime, flex or what else is not the real point. By the way I have been working in a company where the service window was from 10:00 - 12:00 on a normal workday. And it was the users and management on the 34/7/365 who forced the company to have the servicewindow from 10:00 - 12:00 on a normal workday. IT wanted it from 21:00 to 23:00.

One day your people will just say something like "NO WAY" and they you and your company will be in "deep trouble".

If I was in your peoples place I would go to my union and ask them to help me solve the problem. A strike could also get your CEO's attension to the problem.

I am manager of support, infrastructure and operation and we have a 24/7/365 shop. If I call someone of my people on "offhours" they get almost USD 100 per hour (fixed regardless of their salery)
They also get around USD 750 a month extra to take turns to be on call (always one from support and one from operation/infrastructure)

Take care of the people working for you.

If someone in my teams need time off they get it. No big fuzz no big deal. If rest can do what we have to do that's fine.
It's human to have a life outside your work.

To take something some of them have told me more then ones: I have never had a job where I have been working so much and so hard, and also never had a job I liked so much.

All of us work hard in my teams, me too. But if they need me (eg. help or time off) I am there for them. If I need them they are there for my, and most of all they are always there for each other.

I call it teamwork.

/johnny

 

[theripper]

Thank you. I appreciate all your feedback.

 

[chiph]

Johnny99 -

No unions or paid overtime in my state, I'm afraid (North Carolina is a right-to-work state). But management recognizes that working beyond the usual hours deserves some payback, and they're good about granting comp time.

Unless you're a programmer like me, when you're free to work any 80 hours a week you like..

Chip H.

 

[johnny99]

Hi Chip

No I am not a programmer. I am in infrastructure and operations where I work as a manager.

If people in my department started to work 80 hours a week I would stop them. Then it wouldn't take long before I wouldn't have anyone left even if they liked working so much.

We have had situations where we worked 24 hours on a problem like a break-down of a vital server but we try to keep people on a 35 houts week. If they work more they will flex the hours another time.

We normaly don't pay people for overtime except for the people "on call". Normaly people anyway want to flex the hours.

/johnny

 

[spi200]

Hello

When things pickup in the economy your "good" staff who you rely on when the going gets tough will be the first to get poached. If the "good" guys go then your left with the rest.
It may take two to three years, but it will happen.
Maybe take your staff out on the town at your expense. Better still take their wives and families to the mountains for the weekend, employees love that stuff.

Regards

David CNA,CNE
In IT now for 20 years

 

[johnny99]

In my department I 2 times a year take them to town. It doesn't have to cost much.
But this is only minor "spice".

We pay people a little better then normal, but all my people could find better payed jobs tomorrow if they wanted.

The big difference for them is that noone expect to find a better job.

I take care of the people in my department. I let them do their job, help them as much I can and so on.

Before starting on the "free T-shirt" and "going to the town" stuff, get the basics in order.
If the basics are not in order things like "free T-shirts" could blow up in your face.

/johnny

 

[Luckyfour]

If the company asks the employee to work over the weekend then the person either gets paid over-time or gets, at a minimum, equivalent time off. Expecting the staff to donate large amounts of their time, without compensation is abuse and abuse of staff was one of the reasons that unions got started. There needs to be a clearly spelled-out policy overtime with sections on voluntary (i.e. the person chose to stay over-time on something) and when the employee is asked to stay. Undervalued staff look elsewhere for work. The smart organization recognizes that their staff is their strongest asset.

 

[cfalcone17]

I have three and a half (she's a part-time contracter) are hourly people on my staff. Any overtime they work is paid at time and a half. I refuse to allow any of my people to work without compensation. Not only is it unethical, it may be illegal (I am in New Jersey, after all, the Union state). This allows that employee some say in running the means of production - not much, but some.
I myself am salaried, in that I stay until I go and work upgrades on the weekend. My director is a very fair man, in that if I have to work a weekend or extra time, I can take a day off later. I don't "nickel & dime" him (is that "farthing and pence" in the UK? Just wondering....), but if I work a substantial amount of time in one flow, let's say eight or ten hours, I'll take a day off when it's slow. You can never really get a one-for-one in our captitalist-hegemonic-psuedoegalitarian ecomony, but if you are lucky, you get pretty close.
Bottom line: Upper Management must clearly define the rules so that Middle Management can communicate properly to the staff. If a policy exists in part for some time, you may have a hard time getting a clear definition in whole.
One thing you may try is this: kick one of them out early on a really nice Spring day. Be fair, but do it regularly. Don't tell people outside your area, and have your people swear to secrecy that they will never give up this ghost. When the big shots come around and ask questions, run interference like: "He's in the bathroom" or "She's doing so research" or the like. Take their concerns, assuage their fears, and above all else, stroke their egos. If they came over that late in the day looking for something, they can usually wait until morning for an answer. It really wasn't that important for the business - just for the ego.
Most ememrgencies (this side of grid failure or major BSODs) are only as bad as we perceive them to be. Most things can be directed and corrected WITHOUT the interference of Upper Management. A regular team-building lunch helps too (if your company picks up the tab). Also, pizza for the weekend project will buy a lot of souls (like Esau, we all find ourselves to be.)
Sorry for the rant, but it all came out like that. Hope this helps. Christopher *
We bring the mis-manage to MIS Management.

 

[theripper]

Hello - just a 4 month follow-up to let you know what has happened. Since August, one CompTime request was submitted (22 hours - 3 midnight projects). It was rejected. Again, no reason. Just rejected.

Overall Situation: Not good.

Outlook: eh. . . not too good either.

SideEffects: Well, IT has now started an interoffice protocol for operations. Good in theory (and reason for approval) but let me explain. . .

BEFORE, user calls in, "I can't print to the color printer" - tech goes over to the machine within a couple minutes, changes drivers/remaps printer - job done! Total time: 6 minutes. User back up/running/printing and happy!

NOW - same situation, the user is issued a job number, scheduled within 10 business days. Usually, the user is scheduled at least 7 days out. User is not printing to color/not happy! No reason for the 7 days. Just cause they can.

Ironically, this new interoffice protocol was presented by my staff to the CEO, who approved it. I KNEW what they were thinking of when they submitted it. I KNEW IT! No one likes the IT dept., and the IT dept., really don't give a $hit anymore! ARgh! I swear, I'm gonna throw this towel in and go work at SUBWAY!


I'm glad to hear there are other places out there that at least recoginizes somthing in CompTime!!! Heck - even leaving an hour early is something.

Thanks again for all your feedback. Sorry for kinda ventin' but I'm just over this whole comp time thing.

 

[PBurcin]

The issue of comp time or flex time, for salaried or exempt employees, is an issue of great discussion. I recently became employed by a company that literally requires at least 48 hours worked each week. There is no comp time. Flex time has never been discussed. I have checked with the FLSA (Fair Labor Standards Act)to see if this is leagl. There is a clause referred to as "professional exemptions" that most computer professionals fall under. This large hole in the FLSA allows slave driver employers to take advantage of technical staff that have been hired as full time salaried employees. They are not required by anything but their conscience to be fair with their technical staff!

The only way I see to permanently fix this issue is to get the federal law changed to include fair treatment and time off for those of us who work in the computer/technical support profession.

 

[dnels]

Ripper,

It's been a while since I managed an operations group. I've had five years in operations management and 10 years in technical management.

The first issue I see is that you haven't defined (hammered) into YOUR management what your job is. Do you manage employees timesheets or service levels. You need to drill into your management that your group is service level oriented and you manage your resources as you see fit to meet the stated service levels. If you can't succeed at this then any chance at providing comp time to employees is beyond hope and you would be better off at Subway.

Two. No more mister Nice Guy. It sound like your employees have revolted and implemented some kind of crazy process that screwed up service levels to the business that are not meeting their needs. Did you let this happen out of frustration? If so they need to be brought back to the reality that YOU are the boss. They may be happy with the current situation but it sounds like an outsourcing waiting to happen. You will be working at Subway.

Three. Don't make comp time a formal, documented, process oriented thing. Formalization is Unionization. Some people do 60 hours work in 60 hours. some people do 20 hours work in 60 hours. Hopefully you have some people that do 80 hours work in 60 hours. Reward the people who perform. If you're loyal to them they'll be loyal to you. It will also set the bar for the other employees. This will be a delicate balancing act where you need to assign your performers task that will challenge them to work the extra hours. You don't want the losers spending 10 hours trying to solve a problem only to call Joe who fixes it in 10 mins. See point number 2. No more Mister Nice Guy. If you lose some deadwood, oh well, in this economy you should be able to pick up something better than you lost.

Four. Dole out comp time at your discretion. It's not a one to one proposition. This is managing people not hours. Plan when you can be short-handed and hand a day off or an afternoon off to the people who have put in the extra effort. They will appreciate it more if you give them advance warning so they can make plans. This should be a one on one thing and not something you have to announce in front of the whole staff.

Good Luck. You need to become the BOSS. If you cannot achieve the first objective I am afraid you will not succeed. You need to be able to manage the service you provide and from the decription of the what the CEO signed up for you should be able to make improvements over what you have now.

Dave

 

[chicagoAnalyst]

I agree with part of what Dave is saying - one option I have seen used is for managers to give discretionary comp time under the table, not recorded anywhere, and without any official approval.
It solved the problem for all. I think that upper management is often afraid of a cut and dry defined policy due to costs (and dead wood).

 

[Kjonnnn]

Well i heard there a new law being proposed.

It says that the employer will give hourly employees the choice to be paid time and half for over time (anything over 40 hours) OR have the equivalent in time off.

Interesting.

 

[chiph]

But does the proposed law say anything about full-time exempt employees?

Chip H.

 

[Kjonnnn]

No I don't think it did.