Command prompt - Fear or Courage !!! ???

[josel]

Howdy!

NOTE: Kind of long ... Please excuse the long post.

I was once advised that one should not install X on a server and I respect and even understand (some what) the reasoning behind it.

That said, how would a total newbie get around the command prompt when one does not know where to begin?

I am inclined to using SuSE 9.1 for a production server. I have been playing with it and so far, I like what I see. I have been using the GUI console KDE and I find it very friendly. Without any experience, I have been able to navigate around and find things that I cannot even imagine where or how I could find them if I were using the command prompt.

I would like to use both - I too like the power that comes with the command prompt but feel that KDE offers a confort level for a rookie such as myself. I have used SCO Unix for a while and have managed to keep my servers working OK thus far. I am faced with the situation where a "new" OS is coming to town and I do not have the luxury of time (to learn as much as one will need to really administer a server).

So, I figure that using the KDE on the server, will simplify things a bit. In the other hand, I do not want to compromise resources. I love "yast", I find it easy and extremely user friendly.

Some of the basic admin stuff I need to get started with include:
1. User Maintenance
2. Printer Maintenance (mostly network TCP/IP printers)
3. Network Connectivity
4. MySQL
5. PHP
6. Home grown application development (filePro)
7. Perl

I have never done 4, 5 nor 7. The others, I have done and can do in my sleep under SCO Unix (with occasional "I have never seen this before ... but I find my way out of trouble").

One thing I can do is have a second server (a PC setup as a server) with KDE and install production server w/out KDE. This should give me a chance to learn via GUI; but then again, we all know that if you use GUI, you will not learn much.

All this, to ask for your advise on most conservative and productive approach.

Thank you all in advance for your valuable input!!!


Jose Lerebours

 

[sedj]

Why not install the GUI (run level 5), configure your server, and then when it goes into production, just boot it to run level 3 (ie no GUI, just command prompt). Best of both worlds !

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[Castor66]

Or, for a slightly more secure set up - create two servers. 1 for production which doesn't have a GUI and one for pre-production which which does have a GUI. Then you can play with the GUI and examine the output files before applying it to the live server. It's an overhead but a safer overhead.

As for the tasks:

1. User Maintenance - CLI and scripts
2. Printer Maintenance (mostly network TCP/IP printers) - CLI although the GUI can be easier
3. Network Connectivity - Definitely CLI!!!!
4. MySQL - It's config files so CLI
5. PHP - CLI
6. Home grown application development (filePro) - Dunno - never used
7. Perl - CLI

CLI - 5
Not sure - 2

CLI wins!!!!

 

[rudis]

Hey josel,

for a newbie who wants to get some shell and commandlineexperience I propose to follow the advice of sedj and start some of the GUI-applications out of the commandline, instead of clicking simply the startup-icons. In many GUI-tools you can see the actions you do by mouseclick on the shell/commandline from where you startet the tools.

The longer you work with the system, the more you yearn for more efficiency. Many things are certainly easier and faster to do by commandline. Otherwise even M$ wouldn't pack more and more functionality into it.
If you start with SuSE watch out for Novells Linuxstuff. I.e. linuxported Netwaretools could serve for your points 1. and 2. and applications user-managment could be very helpfull. Since Netware 5.1 some mangementtools are really tasty and easy to use. Especially as any Linuxdistribution uses its own tools and changes many of them with every KDE-Version.
Even with webmin or swat (browserbased management) you will be seduced to return to the commandline regularly.
I know - some Linuxfreaks hate this. But I hate costs for wasting time and love tools that help to manage comlexity easier.

 

[josel]

Hello guys!

Thank you all three for your prompt and informative posts. I am a command prompt kind of guy and that is my inclination. Because I have used the command prompt for such a long time, I know its power and its danger ... I also know that it requires "know how" and since I am looking at a production server, I want to be truthful to myself and find the safest way to do it.

Heck, I already learned that yast -i [rpm package] installs an RPM right off the command prompt and I have not even started reading/asking. I am sure that I will rise to the challenge and emerge knowledgable from the Linux core

Regards;


Jose Lerebours

KNOWLEDGE: Something you can give away endlessly and gain more of it in the process! - Jose Lerebours

 

[chris13]

hi,
running dos, os/2 and NT, I always used the commandline and scripting very often (server-admin / programmer).
had been in touch with *nix and their shells from time to time but not very often. I just knew some basics of the power of the shell and the system itself.
some time ago I startet with linux on an old rs6000 "running" with 166MHz. there where plenty of situations where I had to discover how some things work and configure them manually to make debian up and running on that machine.
it's just for fun and learning, but I'm a lazy dog, too.
the box has no Keyboard/Monitor attached, I use it only only via network.
the GUI is installed, but I use it not very often because it's slow(166MHz, VNC-Server .
I keep on exploring how thinks work or how a task may be accomplished on the commandline. If I get lazy or in a hurry I use webmin (great tool!) or take the helping hands of the midnight-commander.
if your system is a production system, I would use a second installation to play around and get used to the admin-tasks without a gui.

 

[josel]

OK - I have installed SuSE already (prior to this post).

How do I set it so that the KDE does not load upon boot?

This server I am referring to would be my "play" server. Right now, I am trying to install the applications I figure I will need (as listed originally) and take notes.

I am sure that it is pretty simple but where do I set it? I found a diaglog where I can disable/enable services but I am not sure if it is here where I should and which service I should disable.

Thanks;


Jose Lerebours


KNOWLEDGE: Something you can give away endlessly and gain more of it in the process! - Jose Lerebours

 

[oppcos]

Note also that one of the nice things about SuSE is that you can run yast (or yast2) from a purely X-less environment and get all the same menus and such in a text mode - thus cheating and not having to figure out how to do those things manually at the prompt. Then, if / when you need more power over some functionality or become more comfortable with specific things, you can wean yourself from the yast interface.

Of course, now that yast is open source and works on other distros as well, there's little reason to ignore its functionality any more than you probably didn't ignore scoadmin before.

I'd still recommend sedj's suggestion of only running X when you want to, but leaving it installed. That won't take up any resources except a little disk space 99.9% of the time.

 

[TonyGroves]

If you like the comfort of X, but don't want to use too much resources, you could try a lightweight window manager like fvwm, instead of KDE. Then you could carefully choose the applications you run, for example Midnight Commander is an excellent file-browser, which runs in text mode but is nearly as convenient as a GUI browser.

 

[ericbrunson]

I'd recommend two books: "Unix in a Nutshell", which is basically an intro to the command line and shell, and "When You Can't Find Your UNIX System Administrator (What You Need to Know)"

Both are concise and well written without too much fluff. After that you may try Evi Nemeth's books.

Bottom line, nothing substitutes for experience. It's just like snowboarding, the more time you spend on the board, the better you're going to be, so just suck it up and hit the slopes.