Code Ownership 1

[CajunCenturion]

Recently, in one of the programmer forums, a member made the following statement

Similarly if you get useful input from a fellow forum user it's normally good form to recognise that assistance rather than pass the code off as your own.

Given that statement, lets assume that you add to your bag of tricks a procedure or method for accomplishing a task that you learned from a fellow Tek-Tips member. At what point, if ever, does that code become your code.

If you in turn, share that technique with another TT member the next day, should you give credit to the original poster? How about one year later?

Suppose you have then used that code in several projects, maybe with a little tweek here and there. Is it then your code? Should you give credit to the original poster when your post the code which contains your tweeks?

What are our ethical obligations with respect to the "ownership" of that code? Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[thatrenowned]

I regularly download .fla files (Macromedia Flash for anyone who doesn't know) to find out how to do stuff. I'll then edit it to my needs or just use the code I downloaded on one of my own files.

If I then give the new file out, I'll tell the person that I got the original from wherever and that I've edited it it.

The best example would be a preloader I downloaded from

http://www.actionscript.org.

I took the code out of it and put it into my own. I then added more detailed information to it, and have since passed this file onto others. Everyone I've given it to I've told them that I got it from actionscript.org and that I've also added my own bits.

As far as I'm concerned, nobody can own code because two seperate people could come up with the same stuff unaware of each other. Who then owns it? The one who did it first?

Saying that, I think that if you get code of someone, you should at least let whoever you give it to know who you got it off. I wouldn't like to think that when I've given out code which I came up with, people then take credit for it.
Also, I wouldn't like to be exposed, say if I said I created something and then someone proves you didn't...that could be embarrasing...(hence the reason I always tell people where I got it from).

Regards

 

[svanels]

The moment that you share the code in a discussion group like Tek-Tips it has no owner, simply because in most cases other users will come up with modifications, suggestions, alternatives etc. Comparable to opensource and Linux.
Posting it to Tek-Tips means that you want to share this knowledge. And you can reply anonymously. Also you cannot ask royalties or consultancy fees.

I know another type of site where you upload the code like a member and you actually sign below it (membership). There it is common practice to cite your sources. Once we caught a guy who was rewriting other members posts and signing like his own brewery. Needless to say that he got banned.

Once some one replied in a Tek-tips discussion that you have to hold information to yourself, that guy obviously doesn't grap the Tek-Tips forum spirit.

When I didn't test a piece of code or information, I frankly admit that I didn't tested it. But in most cases I punch in the code to recreate that particular problem. If it is big enough I like to cite the source if relevant.

If you want credit or money, write a book, don't post your knowledge on Tek-Tips Steven van Els
SAvanEls@cq-link.sr

 

[Schroeder]

A significant percentage of the posts I've made in attempts to help other users have been nearly verbatim copies of posts previously made by someone else. At first I tried to throw in a comment to steer credit towards my sources but I never could remember any details. My bibliographies always amounted to remarks like "Somebody posted this here somewhere before." This started to seem silly to me so I've just decided to take the 'public domain' approach and leave the question of authorship unanswered.

Certainly a person's character could be called into question if they went around explicitly claiming credit for code that they had little or no part in the development of. Beyond that though, I consider code posted to the Tek-Tips forums to be up for grabs. I have no problem with keeping all the profits from a program that might contain procedures I've copped off these pages.

I guess your question didn't relate to copyright infringement though so.. in answer, I'd say it's too impractical to try to keep track of your sources for the purposes of crediting them here. How much do you need to change the code before calling it yours? I guess as long as there are still shadows of the original work and someone asked, it would show poor class to not make mention of the fact that it's an adaptation.

 

[onpnt]

I remember the post with the comment stated above and was in total agreement with them. If I programmer or whatever your profession is, helps another here by searching past threads and finds what another had done to be a solution for the current problem, then giving notice to the originator should be done.

At that point I feel both parties are deserving of credit. The searcher for taking the time out to look through the threads and find a solution, and the original person that had helped.

As for
At what point, if ever, does that code become your code.

The second you hit the Submit Post button you lose ownership of that code and anyone that views it can take ownership of it. If you were not willing to give it out in that manner then you shouldn't be posting it in a forum that thousands of users visit daily.

We shouldn't badger a person for reposting code that was from another thread in anyway though if they show no recognition from the origin. If they felt they don't have to then that’s their choice. I do think a bit of recognition is deserving as I said earlier, but if it’s not there I do think it's a little ridiculous to get upset over the fact you saw your code in a thread someone else posted for the shear fact it may of or did help another. If need be post in the thread that it was your original script and you like the fact it continued past the original thread to help others.

admin@onpntwebdesigns.com

 

[unborn]

personally.. i agree with svanels.. if the code ment that much to you it shouldnt of been posted in first place.. but i do think it is nice if you used someones LONG LONG code they hand coded for you and gave them some credit for it.. i guess the only time i would really think it was wrong to post someone elses code is if you CLAIMED it as yours.. say you saw the code a month back and it was a huge code and someoen needs it so you give it to them and then straight up say "I MADE THIS CODE MYSELF" or some cheesy bs.. you know? other then that the smaller coded stuff isnt really important.. because smaller codes im sure can and have been created by many users way before you because obviously in simple codes there are only so many ways you can do something.. but as i said before.. if the code is like half a program or something complicated then.. i think either no credit to ANYONE(including self) or credit should be given to the coder... -shrug.. thats my 2 cents have nice day (sorry my post isnt all professional looking like everyone elses im a lazy typer :/ not to mention im king of type-o's :/) in the begining man created code.
in the end code will create man.
clones are coming only matter of time.
examples?

http://planetsourcecode.com

 

[AnakinPt]

That's a dillema. How can you prove that a line of code was made by you? You can't.

Once, in the school, 10 years ago, i saw one program running, and i told to myself that i was capable of doing the same thing... and i did. My teachers were saying i copied the code of my college. I did not. I only saw the application running, and i made the code all by myself. Of course the way of thinking was the same.

Here, i avoid to post code i developped, i cannot post full code of applications, but useful functions, why not? I did not invented the well, so why not distribute to everyone useful small functions that can save people ass's. Sometimes i go to the web to seek for other people programs and classes to help me in my work.

Anikin
Hugo Alexandre Dias
Web-Programmer
anikin_jedi@hotmail.com

 

[attrofy]

I think Anikin summed up my thoughts; at what point does learning supplant copying? Granted there is always the knucklehead that thinks public opininon of himself is more iomportant than self esteem, but that person has issues.

Somewhere along the line, we all copied in order to learn. But once we learn, we are expected to do more than just regurgitate. But as so many have pointed out, it isn't always possible to show a learned method without regurgitation of simple basic truths. In reality it would be quite truthful to state that all code writers are regugitating what they have learned - as they probably didn't write the language in which they are coding. In other words, someone else has thought of a way to make it possible to reach your solution, so there is going to be an inherant "right" way to perform certain things within every code. If that happens to coincide with someones code that you read before, then when do you admit you have learned, and are no longer blindly copying procedures??

Hope that isn't too confusing.
Russell

 

[Kjonnnn]

I am a musician also. And frequent some of the music forums on the net. Many times people ask for chords to a song and we (I) post them.

The next time someone else comes along and asks for the chords to a particular song, if someone has the chords I previously posted, they might repost the chords I wrote out and say "Chords as posted by Kjon". We just consider that proper etiquette.

 

[Craig0201]

Hmmmmm......

Interesting.......

"As far as I'm concerned, nobody can own code because two seperate people could come up with the same stuff unaware of each other. Who then owns it? The one who did it first?"....

Well, algorithms can be patented.....write RSA for yourself and just wait for the writ to come in!!!.....Code can be owned........what defines whether code is owned is originality, copyright and patent.......I can't own code to a DLookup in Access......but I can to a highly specialised cryptography algorithm or to a banking operation.......how to do protect it??......I patent it.......steal my ideas at your peril.....but to patent it, i've got to show it is original........

Anikin may well have infringed patents as his college suggested even if he rewrote it.......if I steal the plot to a book, it is still copyright infringement even if I change the words......

KJon is assuredly infringing copyright on his music websites.......chords are definitely part of copyrighted music and any replication requires remuneration......

"The second you hit the Submit Post button you lose ownership of that code and anyone that views it can take ownership of it. If you were not willing to give it out in that manner then you shouldn't be posting it in a forum that thousands of users visit daily.".....wrong......again, the book analogy.....an unprinted book is no use..........but a printed book is protected by copyright......

Personally, I have code in the public domain......but only under a GPA.......so the code is mine and always will be mine.......I can sue if someone uses it without credit or for illegal activities.....and they can only use the code if any subsequent app is published using the same GPA......

Code is not always owned.......but a great proportion is......

Craig

 

[DonQuichote]

It is a nice topic to talk about. When I think of code in a tek-tips forum, I think of a simple mathematical formula. There are a lot of books about maths, but the formulas in them are the same. I learned that there's no copyright on those formulas (they are 'traditional' as you would call it if it were a song).

I think it is the same with code. Most forum answers use standard (traditional) algorithms and those algorithms may be copied. I think it is a little less nice to copy the whole answer, but I do not see much harm in it either. A link to the original answer is nicer and less work...

I do not have the feeling that the code is owned by someone who gives an answer in a forum. Sure, there is a name, but that name is used to have the possibility to ask another question to the same person, not to denote code ownership.

Best regards

 

[thatrenowned]

Craig0201
Really advanced stuff where there is very little chance of two different people\groups coming up with it (like the highly specialised cryptography you came up with) is the type of thing where I think you can say you own the code.

Other smaller stuff, e.g. simple macros, a few lines of actionscript or VB etc, this is the type of thing I don't think you can own.

There is always going to be some point where you can say you own the code...but it has to be something advanced which someone else is highly unlikely to have come up with.

Regards

 

[Kjonnnn]

Craig0201

Kjonnnn isnt infringing on anything. I listen to a song and play the music. Its not the exact chords nor music the writer wrote. I dont pretent to own the song. But it is my arrangement. Thats how gospel is. Ever heard of that?

Now the original Post Title used the word ownership, but the content was just really talking about someone who has taken the time to write some code, and them getting credit for their work.

 

[DonQuichote]

I remember in the early days of computer games (gee, this makes me feel old) that a company programmed and sold a pacman version and got a claim from the company that originally programmed it. I don't remeber much of it, but I recall that this was seen legally as a "new arrangement of somebody else's song"