client non-payment ethics 2

[sysadmin42]

I'm not sure if this is the right forum, but i'm sure someone would have some good input here...

I have a client that refuses to pay (for his website that we built). No fault of ours, though. I have read differing stories throughout the web about what people should do with account suspension. The idea that I like, but I'm unsure of is to make his homepage say, simply: "Account suspended due to non-payment."

Now, I know he'll be upset about that, but I'm kinda upset about not getting his payment. So we're even there. BUT- the public will see that, possibly clients, etc. Should I? Should I just make it a 404 page, or what?

 

[LadySlinger]

Hi Sys,

A similar topic in "My own Development as a Professional" was posted a while back:

http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1153500&page=1

As much fun as it sounds, that could get you into more legal issues then it needs to be, unless you're the one that paid for the web site name,hosts the site, etc. If he paid for the site name and you merely did the design of it, then really you don't have a legal ground to stand on as the

http://www.companyname.com

is his. The link above should give you a better idea though of how to handle a non-payer.

 

[Thadeus]

The idea that I like, but I'm unsure of is to make his homepage say, simply: "Account suspended due to non-payment."

As to how to get payment, I would follow LadySlinger's advice and check the other thread.
Since you have a raised a separate question regarding ethics though, here goes:

No, I don't believe it would be ethical for you to post an "Account Suspended" notice at the site. I understand that you are grieved, but that does not translate into a right of revenge. And while to you it may be a minor revenge, you have noted the potential damage that such action might cause the client's reputation.

HOWEVER, I do not see a particular problem with posting a 404 or "Site under construction" page. I would also attempt to contact company representatives at different levels. A controller may already be having trouble with their accounts payable clerk, or a president with their accountant, etc.
I would approach the situation with such people as a matter of a question, "Is there something inadequate about the product we provided which causes your company to not offer prompt payment?" Keep your cool and try to find something you can agree upon, rather than approaching as confrontational.

In fact, if you haven't already created bad feelings, offering to come in for a presentation of your completed work with emphasis on highlighting features (additional work opportunities) that would make the site even better may be a great way to get your face before some upper management types. If they desire the features you are offering, you can of course use that as leverage to get your payment. Be sure to get a contract for any future work that specifically defines payment terms.

If all else fails, and the company is a small business, you may wish to contact the Better Business Bureau or the Small Business Administration for an arbiter.

~Thadeus

 

[edfair]

I would suspect that making any change to the existing site would fall into the "illegal", rather than the unethical, realm.
You built it with permission and as an employee. That relationship may be ended. It certainly is in question at this point. Until that issue is resolved any change could be construed as hacking.

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[Thadeus]

I disagree Ed... but with no actual legal backing.

How is this different from a car or any other luxury item being repossessed for non-payment? I'm not saying I am right, but I don't think that posting a 404 would fall into illegal territory.

I am also not sure about the classification of "as an employee"... When two companies contract for business reasons, does one become the employee of the other? I don't think that Bethlehem Steel becomes the employee of Ford Motors because they purchase steel from them. The company purchased a product from sysadmin42.

~Thadeus

 

[Stella740pl]

How is this different from a car or any other luxury item being repossessed for non-payment?

Not without a court decision, right?
You wouldn't go to steal a car or other luxury item in the dark for non payment.

 

[Thadeus]

That's an excellent point Stella. There would be a court order before reposession. Which is why I noted my lack of legal backing. I hadn't thought it all out.

~Thadeus

 

[sysadmin42]

Thanks for all your great postings! As far as the term 'employee' goes, I do know that it's a specific term for someone that the employer is responsible for. I am a contractor and built the site 'for hire.'

The relationship is pretty much gone. The client's just being a pain but he's focused his frustrations (probably caused by something else entirely) on this project and refuses to pay for something which he has received.

I think you're right, that saying 'due to non-payment' would probably put me into some legal problems because it very well could damage the client's reputation. This is business and I have to act like it- just deal specifically with the real problem at hand.

I think I've decided what to do: Write a letter to the client, give him a final due date to make his full payment. If he doesn't pay by then, as the letter will state, his site will be deactivated. Then, go with the 404 page if it comes to that.

Legally, I guess he has to receive some notification that his site will go down by a certain date. This will cover my butt and he'll be aware of the consequences.

Thanks again. You have been very helpful.

 

[dkediger]

I would still be a little leery about "deactivating" without knowing a bit more of the business arrangement after the development contract.

Are you also hosting the site? If so, what does the hosting contract say about payments and penalties?

If you do not host the site, be careful about accessing/changing their site for this purpose without a specific agreement giving you the ability to do so.

Pursue the notice letter, probably consult a lawyer, and be prepared to pursue legal judgement. Its the proper way that CYA.

 

[dgillz]

How much money are we talking about here? If this is under the small claims amount (which varies by state) I would just file suit. No need for a lawyer.

Software Sales, Training, Implementation and Support for Macola, eSynergy, and Crystal Reports

http://www.gainfocus.biz

 

[edfair]

My experience with small claims court would suggest a rather close evaluation of the merits.
I filed one for less than $1k and ended up with a counterclaim for $40k, reduced in the first hearing to $25k, awarded my claim in the second hearing, then was advised to kiss and make up by the judge in the 3rd hearing appeal of award since the expert witness would cost more than the original claim. In the meantime I spent the better part of 4 days and required a lawyer for 3 half days.
Granted that this was hardware related, but it was labor charges.

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[chiph]

If you're hosting the site, which means there's a monthly bill they're expected to pay, then turning it off is justified (go through the usual collections process first, keeping copies of all correspondence).

If you just manage the site, then stop managing it. In which case an ethical question is: Do you turn over any passwords when they refuse to pay in this case?

If you did this work as fee-for-service, then go through the usual collections process, and if still nothing, evaluate if it's worthwhile to take them to court. If it's only a few hundred dollars it may not be worth your time.

What I would *not* do is:
1) Any act of revenge
2) Making any libelous statements ("client X are jerks").

However, if asked, it would be honest of you to say "client X did not pay us for the last bit of work we did for them" and that's all. No accusations. If your listener has half a brain, they'll figure out what you mean.

Chip H.


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[Dollie]

If you are the host, I would recommend looking at various hosting sites' policies. Many have non-payment and late-payment policies, and lay out exactly what will happen in both situations.

In the future I would clarify to future clients what you policy is. For now, your idea of a letter with a set date is probably best.